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Production Optics vs. Open Minor


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#41 Twinkie

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 09:35 PM

Do I have to mount the dot to the slide? And use all other Production rig shit? Because fuck that, why would I just increase the headache I suffer shooting Production to introduce some tiny red dot that I have to mill my slide for? 

 

I don't buy this cutting edge of shooting crap, either. I don't use sights until 10yds, and then because I want As. If a dude needs shooting it's probably under that distance anyhow, and a fucking dot doesn't do any good up super close. They also don't really work all that well in all weather conditions. They also make the gun even more a pain to conceal, they cost too much, etc. Frankly, I think they're a fad. Until we get guns designed around and incorporating an Aimpoint into them somehow I don't see the point to chopping up a perfectly usable gun to put a dot on it so I can shoot better at 20 yds.



#42 LeadChucker

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 01:49 AM

.....I don't see the point to chopping up a perfectly usable gun to put a dot on it......

"chopping"?

The C.O.R.E. comes ready to go, no chopping necessary. Speed Shooters have a Optic Mount that fits in the rear sight cut for non-C.O.R.E. guns. I'm sure they will make them for a every gun when PO becomes a reality. http://www.speedshoo...roducts_id=1146

I love the guys here who are naysayers to the Prod Optics idea. I guess those guys think that USPSA is growing and healthy? Wake up it's not, and this idea has serious growth potential, both for new shooters and the ones that left because they lost interest and/or deteriorating eyesight.

If you're against this new idea to grow the sport, please share your idea to grow USPSA.

#43 Fourtrax

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:21 AM

Open Revolver Minor would be more popular.


Ain't it funny we can change the smallest division, which resulted in ZERO membership gain, but adding a division with the POTENTIAL to actually help recruit new members, is somehow frowned upon?

CB45 is right, the bod needs to stamp out the "little fiefdom" mentality and make decisions that keep USPSA the cutting edge shooting competition venue it has always enjoyed being.
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#44 CB45

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:40 AM

Hey you know what would be cool?

Another division for people suck at. Do you really think putting a red dot on a production junker gun is going to change anything? Very few people take the competition seriously and are willing to do the required work to get better. Adding a red dot is just a gear change, not a performance chance,

I hypothesize that 90% of people who say "My eyes are too bad to shoot iron sights" are really just too lazy to figure out how to shoot irons. I know several shooters that have poor eye sight, yet they seem to figure it out.

The guns are a cool idea, but they aren't a revolutionary idea. USPSA guys have been putting red dot sights for a long time.

All that being said, I further postulate that this division would severely dilute the Production talent pool. Create one division and make another obsolete, sounds like a win. Talk about discouraging new shooters. "USPSA: Must have a red dot to participate."

The BOD should think short and long term about this topic.
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#45 Sprewell

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:44 AM

Take the dot sight away from open and give it to production optic then.  Open shooters are so baller they don't need it anyway.



#46 Twinkie

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:45 AM

"chopping"?

The C.O.R.E. comes ready to go, no chopping necessary. Speed Shooters have a Optic Mount that fits in the rear sight cut for non-C.O.R.E. guns. I'm sure they will make them for a every gun when PO becomes a reality. http://www.speedshoo...roducts_id=1146

I love the guys here who are naysayers to the Prod Optics idea. I guess those guys think that USPSA is growing and healthy? Wake up it's not, and this idea has serious growth potential, both for new shooters and the ones that left because they lost interest and/or deteriorating eyesight.

If you're against this new idea to grow the sport, please share your idea to grow USPSA.

 

I did say "chopping up a perfectly good gun." Fitting an expensive optic on top of a supposedly cheap gun like, say a Glock doesn't seem very likely to grow the sport and attract new shooters. People with failing eyesight have trouble shooting, there's no doubt. Look at the fishbowls Miculek sees through. Since the cost of shooting is so high, I see mostly 30 yr olds and up at matches. This is a problem, but one that we're stuck with since ammo is so expensive as are reloading components.

 

I still don't see any reason why we need a division that is Open without all the cool shit. 

 

Do I really care if USPSA is healthy or growing? In my area it's doing fine. I'm a fairly recent joiner so yeah it's growing. 

 

My ideas to grow the sport are to make sure there isn't any cheating, design interesting COFs, have big matches somewhere I can go to them, and for people to be excellent to each other. USPSA could try some marketing as well. IDPA is the go-to action pistol sport because they market heavily, with gun writers, web goons, and ads all over the place. I didn't see Pantyhose Prod. putting out some USPSA vids. They did IDPA. When I started shooting I went into IDPA because the indoor ranges near where I lived did IDPA. It looked cool and there was a lot of supporting information out there in the gun press/online world talking about IDPA. 

 

I still think USPSA's biggest problem is that it is seen as a bunch of elitist rich guys playing a game which has no relevance to the real-world. I find it funny now, because IDPA is even worse at being good training but is seen as the way to get proficient with your carry gun.



#47 dravz

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:56 AM

I love the guys here who are naysayers to the Prod Optics idea. I guess those guys think that USPSA is growing and healthy? Wake up it's not, and this idea has serious growth potential, both for new shooters and the ones that left because they lost interest and/or deteriorating eyesight.

If you're against this new idea to grow the sport, please share your idea to grow USPSA.

 

You can think Production Optics is a terrible idea and still be in favor of USPSA's growth.


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#48 Flexmoney

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:33 AM

Hey you know what would be cool?

Another division for people suck at. Do you really think putting a red dot on a production junker gun is going to change anything? Very few people take the competition seriously and are willing to do the required work to get better. Adding a red dot is just a gear change, not a performance chance,

I hypothesize that 90% of people who say "My eyes are too bad to shoot iron sights" are really just too lazy to figure out how to shoot irons. I know several shooters that have poor eye sight, yet they seem to figure it out.

The guns are a cool idea, but they aren't a revolutionary idea. USPSA guys have been putting red dot sights for a long time.

All that being said, I further postulate that this division would severely dilute the Production talent pool. Create one division and make another obsolete, sounds like a win. Talk about discouraging new shooters. "USPSA: Must have a red dot to participate."

The BOD should think short and long term about this topic.

 

 

Very nice.

 

 

You take this forum so seriously, btw.  


Unless otherwise noted, expect that all my posting here is in true Doodie fashion.  If my post somehow upsets your sensibilities, well...there ya go.  


#49 CB45

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:36 AM

Very nice.


You take this forum so seriously, btw.


Dang, I thought this was benos
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#50 leas327

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:49 AM

I say give it a go. I have seen more production optic type guns in open this year than revo shooters taking advantage of their new and improved division. Fuck it, let them have a division. Can we kill Lim 10 and let it PO take over its spot?
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#51 Flexmoney

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:50 AM

 guys think that USPSA is growing and healthy? Wake up it's not

 

 

It's not?  

 

I think the USPSA train is chugging down the tracks at high speed.    


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#52 Flexmoney

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:53 AM

 make sure there isn't any cheating, design interesting COFs, have big matches somewhere I can go to them, and for people to be excellent to each other. 

 

 

 

 

bill-and-ted.jpg


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#53 Conspiracy Brother

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 08:03 AM

I view it as another case of "I bought a gun that I really can't use for anything, now I want you to change the whole game so I can use it." (cough)8 shot revolver(/cough)

Okay, so maybe you're not changing a division, maybe you're just adding a new one. How can you allow Production Optics and not have Limited Optics? How many true production from the factory guns are there? 2-3? People have been putting scopes on revolvers for the last 60 year. But no Revolver Optics?

Let's add a production optics division. And a Pocket pistol division. A 5 shot revolver division. Limited-7.
Open Irons. Big Bore division. Why exclude anyone if "growth" is your goal. I bet you there are far more people with guns that would fit those than Production Optics.

#54 Flexmoney

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 08:11 AM

Okay, so maybe you're not changing a division, maybe you're just adding a new one. How can you allow Production Optics and not have Limited Optics? 
People have been putting scopes on revolvers for the last 60 year. But no Revolver Optics? 

 
That is a good point.  Everybody always wants MORE.
 
How about an optics divisions for every division?  Oh, and more bullets.



I'm talking about growing the sport, nothing else.


Nah. What you are really talking about is growing participation (which I don't really buy).

You would be diluting "the sport".

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#55 Howie Feltersnatch

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 08:39 AM

Ain't it funny we can change the smallest division, which resulted in ZERO membership gain, but adding a division with the POTENTIAL to actually help recruit new members, is somehow frowned upon?

CB45 is right, the bod needs to stamp out the "little fiefdom" mentality and make decisions that keep USPSA the cutting edge shooting competition venue it has always enjoyed being.

 

 

How thick is your fucking skull?  

 

I'm going to type this slowly so, maybe, just maybe it sinks in. 

 

T h e y  a l r e a d y  h a v e  a  f u c k i n g  d i v i s i o n  f or  t h i s. 

 

You keep spewing about bringing new shooters in... They can come in shoot open, with their tupperware and a RMR mounted up. Da-ta! Look you can come shoot your carry gun, appendix carry, fill your mags up and blaze away.    Whats more inviting than that?  A true run what ya brung division.  Hell, you can cut up your Glock 35  and shoot major!  

 

You want to win, practice more.


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#56 LeadChucker

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 08:41 AM

That is a good point.  Everybody always wants MORE. How about an optics divisions for every division?  Oh, and more bullets.Nah. What you are really talking about is growing participation (which I don't really buy).You would be diluting "the sport".


Let's try it in a Provisional division and see how it goes

#57 Miculek is a Noob

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 08:42 AM

All that being said, I further postulate that this division would severely dilute the Production talent pool. Create one division and make another obsolete, sounds like a win. Talk about discouraging new shooters. "USPSA: Must have a red dot to participate."

The BOD should think short and long term about this topic.

 

Horse shit. Production all along was supposed to be about "shoot what ya brung," mostly unmodified factory guns of the kind that most new guys are likely to have at home. It's the bastardization of the division that's led to the equipment race of CZ and Tanfellatios being required to compete at the top levels (or at least that's the perception these days). So you're concerned about the sanctity of the division with $1500 tuned 45 oz steel guns that are so scarce that no one outside of USPSA has even heard of them? Who are you crapping?

 

And riddle me this -- why did production become the place for the cool kids to play? It's not the fastest, there's more reloads and limitations, and it's not sexy. Back in the day wasn't it the Limited/Open guys grabbing all the attention, and that was the impetus for a Production division with a low barrier to entry? The more things change the more they stay the same.



#58 LeadChucker

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 08:42 AM

You can think Production Optics is a terrible idea and still be in favor of USPSA's growth.


I totally agree, so where is the growth going to come from in your line of thinking?

#59 dravz

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 09:04 AM

I totally agree, so where is the growth going to come from in your line of thinking?

 

I don't have a line of thinking, I was just pointing out your false dilemma like a good troll. :rolleyes:


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#60 Flexmoney

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 09:13 AM

I wonder if Production Optics is overflowing Steel Challenge matches? ...where it can already be run as a stand alone division at local matches.

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