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Vogel Type Grip?


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#1 Just Shoot

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 11:10 AM

Anyone use a Vogel type grip where he torques his hands and puts a lot of side pressure at the top of the grips? Or do you just grip the hell out of the gun?

 

Tried the torque thing and the pistol seemed to be locked in more steady, but maybe just because it was different and I was paying more attention.


God doesn't want me to be a good shooter or he would make this easy.

 

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#2 SlivGod

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 11:12 AM

I just try to grip the bejesus out of the gun. Is that ideal? I have no idea. My grip used to suck. Ben told me to grip the shit out of the gun, so I did... now my grip sucks a little less.


"Forget the necessities, it's the luxuries I can't live without." 


#3 Flexmoney

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 11:51 AM

Ultimately, you'd...

 

 

Oh crap...I feel too dirty to post real shooting stuff here.  Is that wrong?


Unless otherwise noted, expect that all my posting here is in true Doodie fashion.  If my post somehow upsets your sensibilities, well...there ya go.  


#4 Just Shoot

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 12:20 PM

Ultimately, you'd...

 

 

Oh crap...I feel too dirty to post real shooting stuff here.  Is that wrong?

 

It also felt kind of wrong asking the question, but I put it out there anyway hoping there  would be a nugget among the responses.


God doesn't want me to be a good shooter or he would make this easy.

 

Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better.

 


#5 Flexmoney

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 12:46 PM

Here is a nugget.  I think shooting a lightweight gun (Glock) at Major gives a different perspective on grip.  Ultimately, your vision, the timer, and results on target can get you where you need to be.  Though there may be shortcuts through technique.


Unless otherwise noted, expect that all my posting here is in true Doodie fashion.  If my post somehow upsets your sensibilities, well...there ya go.  


#6 Just Shoot

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 12:58 PM

Here is a nugget.  I think shooting a lightweight gun (Glock) at Major gives a different perspective on grip.  Ultimately, your vision, the timer, and results on target can get you where you need to be.  Though there may be shortcuts through technique.

 

Kind of like watching an episode of Kung Fu. So..... there are many paths, but no real shortcuts? Or try a bunch of stuff and use what works?!


God doesn't want me to be a good shooter or he would make this easy.

 

Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better.

 


#7 Ben

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 02:31 PM

Anyone use a Vogel type grip where he torques his hands and puts a lot of side pressure at the top of the grips? Or do you just grip the hell out of the gun?

 

Tried the torque thing and the pistol seemed to be locked in more steady, but maybe just because it was different and I was paying more attention.

 

I think the way Vogels  gun sits in his hand is a symptom of how he grips it. It is not really the means to the end of having a good grip.



#8 waktasz

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 04:22 PM

My grip is just like his. Not purposefully, that's just how it works out if you're awesome.


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#9 1stack

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 05:19 PM

I've watched Ron Avery's videos and read Mike Plaxco's book and neither recommend gripping the gun as tightly as Bob Vogel does. Is this emphasis on "gripping the shit out of the gun" a new approach?

 

I've read and heard recommendations to take a firm but not a death grip where firm is defined as the grip you'd use to wield a hammer (not a sledge, I assume). I've also heard that this firm grip allows the gun to return faster and with less effort versus muscling the gun back to position. Maybe there are multiple "correct" answers and no ultimate grip techique?



#10 R01

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 05:20 PM

I use the Chris Costa grip cause it's cool


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#11 7HeavenCloud9

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 05:27 PM

Think of a 42 oz Shadow or Stock 2 as an apple and a 23 oz G34 as an orange. If you want the juice out of them, you need to squeeze them quite differently.

 

Also, another theory posits that with a heavier trigger you can get away with gripping the gun with more force without it affecting your trigger control, versus a lighter trigger. So a light Glock having relatively heavy recoil (for the caliber) with a heavy trigger and a hard grip are kind of a logical combination, while a heavy pistol and a light trigger would require a lighter touch even for the support hand.

 

Even 1911/2011 shooters tend to favor slightly heavier triggers with .40/.357 and .45 versus lighter triggers with 9x19 Minor or 9x19/.38 Major with a comp, assuming the gun weights about the same with each caliber.


I shoot like an amoeba with special needs!


#12 waktasz

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 05:29 PM

Think of a 42 oz Shadow or Stock 2 as an apple and a 23 oz G34 as an orange. If you want the juice out of them, you need to squeeze them quite differently.

 

Also, another theory posits that with a heavier trigger you can get away with a gripping the gun with more force without it affecting your trigger control, versus a lighter trigger. So a light Glock having relatively heavy recoil (for the caliber) with a heavy trigger and a hard grip are kind of a logical combination, while a heavy pistol and a light trigger would require a lighter touch even for the support hand.

 

Even 1911/2011 shooters thend to favor slightly heavier triggers with .40/.357 and .45 versus lighter triggers with 9x19 Minor or 9x19/.38 Major with a comp, assuming the gun weights about the same with each caliber.

 

I smell bullshit



#13 7HeavenCloud9

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 05:44 PM

I smell bullshit

Then what's your alternative explanation? Maybe he just likes so much to do grip trainers and habitually gets a deathgrip on everything he touches. You know, like doorknobs, car steering wheels, cell phones, other peoples hands when shaking them, etc. :lol:


I shoot like an amoeba with special needs!


#14 sirveyr

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:15 PM

Then what's your alternative explanation? Maybe he just likes so much to do grip trainers and habitually gets a deathgrip on everything he touches. You know, like doorknobs, car steering wheels, cell phones, other peoples hands when shaking them, etc. :lol:

 

This.

 

Shaking Bob's hand is like shaking hands with a bench vise.  He could very easily rip someone's arm off and beat them with it.  Again.


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I was here before post #112

 


#15 Stubb

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:18 PM

I've watched Ron Avery's videos and read Mike Plaxco's book and neither recommend gripping the gun as tightly as Bob Vogel does. Is this emphasis on "gripping the shit out of the gun" a new approach?

 

Just checked my copy of Plaxco, and it carries a copyright date of 1991. Standards have improved markedly since then, and I'd bet that a national champion from 1991 wouldn't crack the top ten today shooting as he did. People shoot differently today than they did back then.

 

I was also taught to hold the pistol like a hammer and not grip it too tight back in the late '90s. But the spreadsheet I've been keeping with my Steel Challenge scores tells me that gripping the shit out of it works better. I think of my left hand as a vice but am not squeezing quite as hard with my right.



#16 Just Shoot

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:21 PM

My original question asked does anyone else do it. (Apply torque to their grip.) I am assuming the answer is no. If all you awesome shooters don't do it, then I probably don't need to continue wasting my time. That is unless I get some urge to change back to a plastic gun.


God doesn't want me to be a good shooter or he would make this easy.

 

Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better.

 


#17 sirveyr

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:24 PM

I do it, but I am mediocre at best.  I find that gripping the shit out of the gun with my support hand and trying to rip the grip apart, like breaking a wishbone, really improved my shooting.


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I was here before post #112

 


#18 waktasz

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:43 PM

Then what's your alternative explanation? Maybe he just likes so much to do grip trainers and habitually gets a deathgrip on everything he touches. You know, like doorknobs, car steering wheels, cell phones, other peoples hands when shaking them, etc. :lol:

 

The part with the different weight guns and different weight triggers require a different amount of grip to shoot them..that part...bullshit.



#19 waktasz

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:47 PM

My original question asked does anyone else do it. (Apply torque to their grip.) I am assuming the answer is no. If all you awesome shooters don't do it, then I probably don't need to continue wasting my time. That is unless I get some urge to change back to a plastic gun.

I squeeze the meaty part of my weak hand into the upper part of the grip, but my wrist is torquing forward, not into my other hand/into the gun.



#20 7HeavenCloud9

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:02 PM

The part with the different weight guns and different weight triggers require a different amount of grip to shoot them..that part...bullshit.

So, you think it's just a weird coincidence then that Mr. DeathGrip shoots a plastic gun with a heavy trigger, while people shooting heavier guns with lighter triggers both find better things to do with their time than grip strengthening (and I mean relatively, I got my ProHands grippers sitting on the next desk, btw) and also tend to teach their students to grip with somewhere between ”like a hammer” and 60-75 % of 280 pounds of strength...


I shoot like an amoeba with special needs!





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