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#1 CB45

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 08:05 AM

from Rob L.

The natural ability thing is real. Everyone has some, some just have more. It's what is done with it and how it is developed that matters. I have trained many, many shooters and not all have the same basic tools, plus not everyone is wired the same. A really top level shooter, as in champion at the top of any discipline has incredible physical co-ordination, and not just hand eye. They know where their feet are, and what their weight distribution is at all times and have excellent balance. They are physically strong, and I do not mean fit. Few are exceptionally light or small. There are some who are exceptions to some of these observations, but not all of them. All have a drive to train and excel while training. All are driven to excel under pressure and hate failing. All see the sacrifices they make to reach the top levels as acceptable, when many others would not. Those that stay relevant for extended periods of time truly love the equipment, practicing and the environment at the matches and feel very comfortable around others like them. They almost all do what they do out of an insatiable desire to perfect and perform the skills they need.

Speculation of what it takes to get to this level seldom centers around the core elements. It is natural ability, but that is a starting point. Natural ability undeveloped will not create a champion. Interestingly, I see natural ability frequently, it is not uncommon. Having the "heart and commitment" is most rare.

By the way, another curious observation; when an exceptional shooter performs at an exceptional level, it isn't special to them. They have of course experienced the feeling many times before and are expecting greatness to happen, not surprised by it....


thread : http://www.brianenos...c=203878&page=2

what say Doodie?
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#2 Sprewell

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 08:10 AM

Makes sense to me and I agree.  I think anybody can get gooder at anything if they try and keep at it.  I don't think everybody can be great at something just because they want it though.



#3 LeadChucker

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 08:13 AM

Read The Talent Code.

Great book, and the secret is in the book, I won't give it away

Rob is also correct, natural ability is required to reach the very top.

I strongly believe that anyone with a lot of commitment, who reads Talent Code and some Dry Fire books, takes a few classes should be able to be a solid A shooter in a year.

Copied my post from Enos

#4 Hoes Master

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 08:34 AM

Wow. It sounds like he's describing me
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#5 Alfred Salveti

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 08:35 AM

This is my observation....

 

I hear lots of people that are C, B that want to be M or GM make claim the good shooters; the guys that win the locals, or M's or GM's just have a natural ability or God given talent.  And that they are so good in large part because they are younger or more athletic; or had a daddy that started them when they were 12, or they get free ammo from work, etc., etc...

 

But then I hear, and know from my own experience, that those M or GM's; when asked how they got so good, simply say they developed (or copied) a smart training plan and went to work on getting better-that they dry fire trained multiple days per week, that they went to the range and practiced a particular skill, that they read books, they studies the traits of the best shooters, etc.

 

I (used to be fat), I'm old, and I had never been good at a single sport my entire life......

 

Except practical shooting; and not until I got to work on improving...


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#6 jakemartens

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 08:36 AM

The thread on enos has the regular

"if I shot 50k rounds a year I could be...."

 

I do not think that is true at all, you are going to be better, but there is something that the very top guys have that others do not

call it what you want, natural ability, raw talent, better reaction time, faster eye movement..whatever they just have it

but they also have what Rob said "desire and drive..." That is what takes people to the top level of competition, the desire and drive to never be satisfied with their current level of performance


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#7 snark

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 08:55 AM

To be #1 in the world you need to have what it takes. All of it. And then beat somebody else with all of it and maybe more.

 

You can be top-10 without a piece or maybe two if you put enough into the other pieces.

 

Most of us lack pieces, but I bet for 98% of folks they lack the total commitment and drive necessary.  Ben talks about this in a recent podcast and TGO echoes it.

 

I love to shoot. I've been playing this game for 20 years and have a quarter-million rounds downrange and 2 GMs on my card to show for it. With a good enough match I can make the top 16 at nationals.  But I'll likely never be in the very top because shooting (or even dry-firing) 500 rounds a day, every single day eventually turns into work and I'm too lazy for that and will eventually screw off to do something else fun instead. A true champion ™ would think that was just a warmup and wouldn't think twice about driving to the range at 6am so they can get an hour in before going to work.  Homie don't play dat.


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#8 Just Shoot

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 09:44 AM

I was reading an article yesterday about the vision of an average major league player. Here's a quote:

 

"The average major-league baseball player, in the experience of Red Sox ophthalmology consultant Daniel Laby, has vision that measures around 20-12 or has been corrected to 20-12."

 

The article goes on to state that in today's world, you will not be a good hitter with 20-20 vision.

 

I don't disagree with the post. I think to be the best, you have to have the best abilities necessary for the sport be it vision, proprioception, reflexes, whatever. However that just gives you a ticket to play. It's the people that can do it day in, day out maintaining a high level of focus without getting bored out of their minds that get there. Natural ability is just a piece of the puzzle.


God doesn't want me to be a good shooter or he would make this easy.

 

Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better.

 


#9 GuanoLoco

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 10:29 AM

I can't change my inherent natural ability or age.

 

I can choose to learn more, practice harder and more effectively, and test my skills in competition.

 

Will I be the The Next Great One?  No, but I believe I can achieve my reasonable objectives - Paper GM and local 'dude-ness' or preferably dominance for starters.


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#10 Vagetarian

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 10:36 AM

You guys suck.  I've been saying this through two versions of Doodie but nooooooooo......  HTFU and TRAIN MOTHERFUCKER AND YOU TOO CAN BE NATIONAL CHAMPION!!!!

 

I think he nailed it when he said that the desire to train and the focus to train and enjoy it are a natural ability as well.  I think most guys lack this natural desire and eventually say fuck it out of frustration.


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#11 GuanoLoco

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 10:43 AM

I prefer to just channel my natural intelligence and natural OCD characteristics into something productive.  Assuming of course you consider shooting more gooder and reloading more gooder to be productive....


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#12 Alfred Salveti

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 11:20 AM

Everyone knows if you want to be a GM, all you have to do is get a CZ or Tanfo.


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#13 ummm

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 12:06 PM

what say Doodie?

 

 

He's generally correct, imo.  Everyone is different, therefore some will have natural advantages in various tasks over others.

 

I think it's incorrect to say that you need some above-average amount of natural ability to do well in practical shooting, but it depends how we define "well".  If we define "well" as earning your GM card or winning your local match, the bar is sufficiently low and / or the talent pool is just so small that I think anyone who is willing to put in the work will get there.   I think it's almost impossible to avoid becoming a GM if you put in a modest amount of consistent training over, say, 5 years.    

 

If you define "well" as finishing in the top 10 at IPSC Worlds, then that's a different story.  



#14 GuruOfGuns

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 12:46 PM

   I think it's almost impossible to avoid becoming a GM if you put in a modest amount of consistent training over, say, 5 years.    

 

 

I think the number of people that have done that and are still A proves you wrong.

 

I agree with RL, it would be ignorant not to, but I think there is something else to add. One is situation and money, there are some extremely talented shooters who because of their life situation, just can't get to large shoots and test themselves against better shooters, learn from watching the best in the world. I know video and books help but it's several levels more difficult to get to your absolute best without something to gauge yourself against. It sounds like a weak excuse but how many world class anything don't have trainers available all the time? We have guys like Ben and others who write books and give classes but it's nothing like the availability of say golf.


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#15 Vagetarian

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 02:30 PM

Jamaican bobsled team.

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#16 JaeOne3345

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 02:53 PM

People will take this entirely the wrong way and use it as an excuse for why they suck.

 

Everyone out there can reach "pretty damn good." This is shooting, not track n field. Does that mean everyone out there will be Eric? No. But local level GM? No fucking excuse not to one day achieve that shit. 


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#17 JaeOne3345

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 02:55 PM

  I think it's almost impossible to avoid becoming a GM if you put in a modest amount of consistent training over, say, 5 years.    

 

 

The only reason they won't is if they train wrong. Or not at all.


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#18 GuruOfGuns

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 02:58 PM

People will take this entirely the wrong way and use it as an excuse for why they suck.

 

Everyone out there can reach "pretty damn good." This is shooting, not track n field. Does that mean everyone out there will be Eric? No. But local level GM? No fucking excuse not to one day achieve that shit. 

 

What is a "local level GM" and where do I get one?


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#19 GuanoLoco

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:04 PM

Right here one day.  Hopefully a paper GM & local hotshot.  Will get ass kicked soundly by real GM's - dudes willing to travel to majors regularly much less Nationals.

 

Worthy goal for now.  Still a wannabe, but finally learning to train properly and making measurable progress.


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#20 Vagetarian

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:05 PM

People will take this entirely the wrong way and use it as an excuse for why they suck.

 

Everyone out there can reach "pretty damn good." This is shooting, not track n field. Does that mean everyone out there will be Eric? No. But local level GM? No fucking excuse not to one day achieve that shit. 

You tell 'em Jae, RA freaking RA!!!


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I just man-handled that prick with my Type-A personality.
Dipshit tard duckweed goat humper.

You're all a bunch of fucking idiots and retards!





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