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#21 JaeOne3345

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:07 PM

I am talking about your average work a 9-5 weekend warrior guy that reaches GM and manages some decent Area match finishes yearly. Is he capable of super squad level performances? Maybe not, but he would be a damn good shooter.

 

My point is that anyone can reach that level if they want to. Some don't want to and that's cool, too. I don't think the whole natural talent thing comes into play until you are talking about the highest points of the sport, or shall I say game. Can't really call it a sport.


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#22 Sprewell

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:07 PM

Our local "hotshot" at the steel challenge match is Sevigny.  I'm going to be kicking his ass any match now.



#23 GuanoLoco

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:10 PM

I find getting my ass handed to me to be far more motivational than actually winning the match.


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#24 JaeOne3345

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:12 PM

 but finally learning to train properly and making measurable progress.

 

That right there is key. Go to your average gym. You'll have 90% of the people in there making no sort of performance gain for years of going into the gym.  Why? They "train" horribly and/or simply lack the knowledge of how to do so.


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#25 GuruOfGuns

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:15 PM

Have to disagree, there are some that no matter how dedicated or how much they put into or how bad they want it, won't make ever make GM by legal means.  If you want to keep shooting classifiers over and over one day and keep the best maybe but that shouldn't count.

 

 

Just because you have a GM card doesn't mean you are a GM.  No more than having a dick makes you a porn star.


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#26 JaeOne3345

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:15 PM

You tell 'em Jae, RA freaking RA!!!

 

less powder.


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#27 JaeOne3345

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:17 PM

Have to disagree, there are some that no matter how dedicated or how much they put into or how bad they want it, won't make ever make GM by legal means. 

 

Even with proper training  that is personalized to their weaknesses? Really? Is there some sort of physical handicap we are leaving out?


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#28 Stubb

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:17 PM

That right there is key. Go to your average gym. You'll have 90% of the people in there making no sort of performance gain for years of going into the gym.  Why? They "train" horribly and/or simply lack the knowledge of how to do so.

 

And don't realize that they lack the knowledge to train well.

 

Very true in shooting as well. 



#29 GuanoLoco

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:19 PM

Have to disagree, there are some that no matter how dedicated or how much they put into or how bad they want it, won't make ever make GM by legal means.  If you want to keep shooting classifiers over and over one day and keep the best maybe but that shouldn't count.

 

 

Just because you have a GM card doesn't mean you are a GM.  No more than having a dick makes you a porn star.

 

But a GM card, achieved fairly, is a worthy goal and a requirement on the path to perhaps someday becoming a 'real' GM, is it not?

 

How many 'real' GM's are running around out there sandbagging it with M or A-Class cards?


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#30 JaeOne3345

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:21 PM

And don't realize that they lack the knowledge to train well.

 

Very true in shooting as well. 

 

EXACTLY. They think they have tried it all and have it all figured it out.


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#31 Vagetarian

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:23 PM

There's a lot of people who shoot a couple of matches and never come back because they simply don't have it in them. I know a couple of mild-mannered account types that were so clumsy that they DQ'd in each of three matches that they shot. They just didn't get it. You can't train that out of some people. Just like you can't train GM into some people.

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#32 JaeOne3345

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:27 PM

There's a lot of people who shoot a couple of matches and never come back because they simply don't have it in them. I know a couple of mild-mannered account types that were so clumsy that they DQ'd in each of three matches that they shot. They just didn't get it. You can't train that out of some people. Just like you can't train GM into some people.

 

You can train the clumsiness out of them with enough proper repetition. Different people will need a different number of reps, yea, but never move past it? Nah. I dunno, man.


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#33 Twinkie

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:30 PM

I DQ all the time and still want to be GM. I don't DQ on classifier stages, though.
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#34 Sprewell

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:32 PM

You can train the clumsiness out of them with enough proper repetition. Different people will need a different number of reps, yea, but never move past it? Nah. I dunno, man.

 

 

I stand behind what I said earlier that anybody can get better.  For some folks though their best is still going to be pretty fucked up.



#35 GuruOfGuns

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 05:19 PM

Even with proper training  that is personalized to their weaknesses? Really? Is there some sort of physical handicap we are leaving out?

 

It's difficult for someone who has some co-ordination and physical skills to realize the limitations of those born without. Maybe I'm holding the achievement of a GM card at too high of a level but I've worked with people who just struggle to do the things that are easy for others.  That's one reason every great shooter can't be a great coach, they may not understand the limitations some us have to work with because they didn't have to themselves, so then they don't have the answers that would help. I fully understand the "fuck limitations just do it" mindset but there is a brick wall somewhere waiting to stop us, it's way further up the food chain for some and a lot closer for others.

 

The ability to think on your feet is something I don't think you can teach, there are times in our sport when that can make a big difference in outcome, of course I'm talking about actual match performance not shooting classifiers which really is just shooting a drill.  I've known several people who just couldn't get it, maybe it was physical maybe mental, but for instance shooting a sub 6 sec El Prez was something that just wasn't going to happen.


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#36 JGus

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 05:26 PM

Everyone knows if you want to be a GM, all you have to do is get a CZ or Tanfo.

 

Come on man, that's ridiculous.  Not ANY CZ or TANFO is an automatic GM card, it's just the Shadow,  Shadow Accu, Stock II and III.    


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#37 SME at Pistol Forum

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 05:28 PM

Have to disagree, there are some that no matter how dedicated or how much they put into or how bad they want it, won't make ever make GM by legal means.  If you want to keep shooting classifiers over and over one day and keep the best maybe but that shouldn't count.

 

 

Just because you have a GM card doesn't mean you are a GM.  No more than having a dick makes you a porn star.

 

I've read a few of your posts and I just have to say; you have to be one of the dumbest fucking people I've ever seen on the internet...


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#38 JGus

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 05:41 PM

That's some good stuff from Rob L.

 

In my area I don't think I've ever heard any top shooter say they are just a "natural," nor do I think I've heard anyone say that about them.  Those guy's have trained their ass off.  We know we can stumble into C and B with little to no training, but we can't stumble into A, M or GM.  From what I've witnessed firsthand from our area's top shooters (which definitely doesn't include me), the difference in training to get to A vs M vs GM is significantly increased at each level.  I admire the dedication of the shooters that are doing what they can to max out their potential.  


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#39 GuruOfGuns

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 06:34 PM

I've read a few of your posts and I just have to say; you have to be one of the dumbest fucking people I've ever seen on the internet...

 

 

From the guy who thinks his Pistol-Forum trolling fails are interesting. HEH


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#40 Hans3005

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 07:15 PM

There is a lot to do with talent with shooting just like anything else. That's not to say that you can't push yourself to your limits and keep doing it and make progress. Talent only gets you so far. Hard work and dedication can take you a long way hand eye cordination can be developed just like building strength or muscle. Not very many people can walk into a gym and start just throwing on plates you have to work your way up. The people who make the gains are the ones who put in the effort and don't give up. I'm a personal believer that you can do just about anything if you want it bad enough.




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