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#121 Cheap Shot

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 10:43 AM

So if I am 33, please, someone, tell me when I am going to start falling apart?

 

The guys I know power lifting well into their 50's seem to have something figured out....

 

Get off your ass and do something.

 

To answer the question in your first sentence, You'll be bullet proof, until you're not. At least thats the way it worked for me.

 

I've got 40+ years pretending to be a PL, with the injuries and wear and tear that goes with it.

 

I strongly agree with your last sentence but everyone's reality, genetics, circumstances are different. Wish you the best in your future athletic pursuits and USPSA goals. Now, GET OFF MY LAWN!



#122 Motosapiens

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 04:09 PM

Maybe your circle isn't large enough or old enough.

 

I know lots of people in their 70's that can spank the shit out of 20 and 30 somethings in many many competative arenas, mostly skill or knowledeg based, but in some physical circles too.

 

My point is that generalizations and absolutes are frequently faulty support in discussions. I was chiding you for your absolute: "overall at *anything*".

 

I call BS. beating *some* 20 and 30-somethings doesn't count. I'm talking about being competitive for the overall (which is why I typed that pretty clearly). There are zero 70-yr olds that are competitive for the overall in any athletic endeavour (unless no one serious shows up).

 

But feel free to provide some examples, and not of chess or billiards or poker or violin playing or making a sandwich, but of competitive athletic endeavours.


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#123 Doc

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 07:33 AM

Ah, you found the flaw in you original statement. You said "*anything*", not "*anything* athletic".

And I never said "some".

But your current blanket assertion is still just as demonstrably false. A 70 year old martial arts master will still dominate regardless of his age.

For the narrow arena you see in you mind when you say *anything*, I suppose we'll have to wait until Rob turns 70. While we're waiting, I invite you to revisit you personal limited definition of 'anything'.

I'm not arguing that any 70 year old will spank any 20 year old on any given day in any competition, athletic or not. I'm saying that your absolute that it can never happen is the true bullshit here.

When it comes to many things, especially people, absolutes are a trap you set for yourself. <--- the point you continue to miss.
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#124 Motosapiens

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 08:49 AM

But your current blanket assertion is still just as demonstrably false. A 70 year old martial arts master will still dominate regardless of his age.
 

 

BS. Find me one that is winning regional competitions competing against 20-50 yr old martial arts masters.

 

They don't exist. that's why we have age-groups in competition. I've been competing at stuff all my life, and I've seen plenty of people past the traditional athletic prime who can still bring it. I've seen 40 and 50 yr olds that are competitive for the overall in a motorcycle or bicycle race, but no 70 yr olds. And you haven't seen them either.


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#125 GuanoLoco

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 08:57 AM

I've trained with a few - they are mostly interested in imparting knowledge, participating and not getting injured by younger idiots who can't comprehend that a 70 year old body doesn't have the strength/flexibility/endurance/recovery powers of a younger body. Even if they can use skills, experience and treachery to win a lot of the time, it's a fool's bet and the wear and tear isn't worth it.
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#126 Doc

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 09:53 AM

I've trained with a few - they are mostly interested in imparting knowledge, participating and not getting injured by younger idiots who can't comprehend that a 70 year old body doesn't have the strength/flexibility/endurance/recovery powers of a younger body. Even if they can use skills, experience and treachery to win a lot of the time, it's a fool's bet and the wear and tear isn't worth it.


This.

Grapist may finally get it after he ripens a few more years.

And he still missed my point.
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#127 Conspiracy Brother

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 12:34 PM

For those stop and go stages, you need to leave sooner, and start shooting sooner, not run faster.

 

This. People don't get it.

 

So just ignore the laws of physics. Got it!  

 

As to when you start to fall apart, it all depends. For me it was when I was about the same size of JaeOne, around age 12-13. It was all down hill from there. 



#128 Motosapiens

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 07:51 PM

This.

Grapist may finally get it after he ripens a few more years.

And he still missed my point.

 

So you're saying there are lots of 70 yr olds out there that can still win the overall, but they're taking it easy because it takes them longer to recover? That makes a lot of sense.

 

Anyway, the whole point was that imho there is not enough running in any normal uspsa match for physical fitness to be a major issue (at least among healthy adults). And if physical fitness or foot speed *is* an issue for a particular person, that doesn't mean the sport needs to change or stages need to change to accomodate. The number of fat, slow, successful GM's is pretty high. Just shoot, and stop making excuses.


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#129 mx5

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 07:59 PM

 

 

Get off your ass and do something.

That right there is the key to maximizing our ability as we age. In fact, the more messed up we get from age, injury, genetics, etc., the more important it is to make an effort to stay fit. I suck ass at staying fit. Last spring I weighed 190 lbs and I was walking 3 miles a day in 45 minutes. Once a week I walked 3 miles in 45 minutes carrying a 45 lb pack. The "pack test" is a requirement for my summer job. It took me months to work my way up to that fitness level. Today I weigh too damn much and I don't excercise. JaeOne3345 should come kick me in the nuts and slap me silly before I dig my own grave with a fork.

 

Throwing numbers around like 50 years old, 70 years old, etc. is OK I suppose, but we all know that age vs. turning to crap is a very individual thing. There is a GM shooting Limited at one of our neighboring clubs that hauls ass through long courses like the proverbial bat out of hell. Son-of-a-bitch that guy is fast. He is in his early 60's. One of the guys I practice with is 54 (I think) and he is just absolutely explosive from box A to box B. He swims, he runs up and down bleachers at a small stadium, and so forth. He is also very smooth and efficient. His goal next year is to be high Senior at next year's National's. I shoot against a Master class Open shooter from Montana that is a retired guy. I think he is in his early 60's. He is mobile and agile, and a heck of a shooter.

 

By contrast, there is a Master Limited/SS shooter at a club down the road who has faced some physical challenges. When I first met him he was a beast and one hell of an athlete. He has obviously pumped some iron in his life. I don't know how many surgeries he has had on various joints, but Old Man Time is not his friend. A buddy of mine is a former wrestler, trackster, and coach. When he was coaching track at the local high school (in his forties) he routinely put high school kids to shame. He is 59 today and his entire body has been ravaged by arthritis. Damn, what a shame. I am sure we all know folks who went from 50 to 75 in 10 years.

 

I started shooting USPSA in 2000. By 2003 I had made Master in Limitied, Limited 10, Production, and Revolver. About a year later I made Master in Open. A short time after that I moved up to Limited GM. I stopped shooting Production with a classification percentage of 94.7%. I didn't think it would be fair to me or to the system to move up to GM. I also stopped shooting my single stack in L10 at 93.83%. I did shoot a classifier with my SS/L10 gun that would have put me at GM, but I was shooting it in Limited. Limited with a 10 round mag is a hoot. About 5 years ago USPSA moved me down in class to A class across the board due to my arthritis, compressed discs in my lower back, and other such shit.

 

There you go, the life story of the NFG at Doodie. Then again, this is Doodie so I doubt that anyone gives a Doodie. BTW, I am 59 years old.

forrest.jpg

 

Oh cool, look what showed up while I was typing my reply. 

 

 

Just shoot, and stop making excuses.

 

Dude, there is a hell of a difference between an excuse and a reason. I wonder, will this get me a Doodie warning?

STFU_and_GTFO.jpg

 


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#130 Doc

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 07:57 AM

So you're saying there are lots of 70 yr olds out there that can still win the overall, but they're taking it easy because it takes them longer to recover? That makes a lot of sense.

 

Anyway, the whole point was that imho there is not enough running in any normal uspsa match for physical fitness to be a major issue (at least among healthy adults). And if physical fitness or foot speed *is* an issue for a particular person, that doesn't mean the sport needs to change or stages need to change to accomodate. The number of fat, slow, successful GM's is pretty high. Just shoot, and stop making excuses.

 

I have to admit that I found this more than a little entertaining. It reads like you agree that 70 year old GMs have the same chances to be overall champs as younger GMs.

 

Maybe USPSA competitions aren't part of your *anything* absolute. And before you protest, competative shooting is exactly what this thread is about.


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It pins my irony meter when people post things like "your to stupid..."

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#131 Doc

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 08:13 AM

I was going to post this under 'Handgun a Technique', but it's broader than that.

Getting older doesn't mean dropping back to D class. But, adjustments need to be made to hold what edge you have. Smart compensations can still get the job done.

What changes have you made to work around age related problems like decreasing speed and vision and increasing aches and pains?

 

For those who think this thread is about fitness while they are young, I quote my OP.

 

You young guys go ahead and exercise and eat right. Good on you. I mean it.

 

But age will eventually negate a lot of your work. You will undoubtedley be in better shape when you get there due to your efforts, but you will still be slower than you are now. Your eyes may be worse, you may have pounds you just can't get off. You will almost certainly have less muscle mass, wind and endurance.

 

What this thread is about is what can you do to compensate and keep your edge and still be competative. Even you young, in shape guys full of piss and vinegar might learn something useful for later.


Unload and Show Clear...
tsarbombaexplos2.jpg
"Licorne" French Polynesia 1970

It pins my irony meter when people post things like "your to stupid..."

You brought a rifle to a handgun competition?

#132 GuanoLoco

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 09:04 AM

1. Make more $ and use it effectively (reloading gear, guns, blammo, range time, training, etc.).

2. Free up more time and use it effectively.

3. Stop popping out babies, and if you have brood have them eject them at the earliest opportunity.
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#133 Motosapiens

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 11:39 AM

I have to admit that I found this more than a little entertaining. It reads like you agree that 70 year old GMs have the same chances to be overall champs as younger GMs.

 

Maybe USPSA competitions aren't part of your *anything* absolute. And before you protest, competative shooting is exactly what this thread is about.

It doesn't read like that at all. Obviously, since there are no 70 yr old shooters winning the overall at any significant uspsa match, they do NOT have the same chances as younger shooters.

 

However, younger shooters that win matches are often fat and out of shape, 


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#134 Motosapiens

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 11:42 AM

But age will eventually negate a lot of your work. You will undoubtedley be in better shape when you get there due to your efforts, but you will still be slower than you are now. Your eyes may be worse, you may have pounds you just can't get off. You will almost certainly have less muscle mass, wind and endurance.

Exactly my point. It will eventually catch up to you, and there's no point whining about having to run 11 feet between shooting positions. Just shoot.

 

I'm not sure exactly when this point happens. Clearly there are many people in their mid-50's that are competitive at the highest levels. Clearly there are no people in their 70's who are competitive at the highest level. Maybe it happens in the 60's on average. Dunno.

 

Doesn't really matter tho because 99% of us are not and will never be in the hunt for the overall win at an area match, so it's more about shooting as well as you can shoot and enjoying your life, and not worrying about whether you think someone beat you because you are not as quick-footed as you used to be.

 

But whatever, I went and read the first post again, and it's obvious that we have been waylaid somehow. If I didn't say it before, I'll say it now. I'm a spry young 53, and here's what I've done:

 

1. find the right glasses so I can see the front sight clearly, and the rear sight and the targets adequately.

2. learn to shoot better while moving, so I don't have to be in such an all-fired hurry to get somewhere and then stop and hose everything.

3. Drink a little bit less, especially the night before a  match.

4. Took up ice hockey because it's an incredible aerobic (and anaerobic) workout and way more interesting than the gym.

5. Practice with a purpose, both dry-fire and live-fire, and make sure I understand what that session's purpose is before I start.

 

Of course I would do all those regardless of age because it's just stuff that helps me shoot better and live happier.


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#135 mx5

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 01:56 PM

 

 

I'm a spry young 53...

Same age as TGO.

 

In an earlier post someone asked about our thoughts as to why TGO throws down such great stage times. I think it is because he is just plain gooder than everyone else. He is also just 53 years old. I hope he can keep it up into his 60's.

 

Go look at the stage diagrams for some of the matches Rob has shot in the last couple of years. In particular, look for the stages that have the most "physical aspects" such as a lots of low ports, going prone, movement of 15 yards or more with nothing to engage, etc. Then look up his stage times in comparison to the rest of the top finishers. Then look up the speed shoots and stages with minimal movement where there is nothing to engage. Which stages does TGO absolutely own?

 

Back to the OP's original questions. As we age, pain management becomes an issue for some of us. In my experience, it is vital to stay ahead of the curve. If you start popping the Tylenol after the sciatic nerve starts raising hell...well you know what I mean. Also, I don't consider a pain to be painful unless it is so bad that it wakes me up in the middle of the night. Manage those aches and pains before the match so you can get a good night's sleep.


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#136 Motosapiens

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 03:00 PM

Same age as TGO.

 

In an earlier post someone asked about our thoughts as to why TGO throws down such great stage times. I think it is because he is just plain gooder than everyone else. He is also just 53 years old. I hope he can keep it up into his 60's.

 

Go look at the stage diagrams for some of the matches Rob has shot in the last couple of years. In particular, look for the stages that have the most "physical aspects" such as a lots of low ports, going prone, movement of 15 yards or more with nothing to engage, etc. Then look up his stage times in comparison to the rest of the top finishers. Then look up the speed shoots and stages with minimal movement where there is nothing to engage. Which stages does TGO absolutely own?

 

Back to the OP's original questions. As we age, pain management becomes an issue for some of us. In my experience, it is vital to stay ahead of the curve. If you start popping the Tylenol after the sciatic nerve starts raising hell...well you know what I mean. Also, I don't consider a pain to be painful unless it is so bad that it wakes me up in the middle of the night. Manage those aches and pains before the match so you can get a good night's sleep.

 

Same age, but a lot less great, lol. Although I am thankfully in MUCH better physical condition. I've RO'd Rob several times in the last few years. He is very efficient and smooth.

 

I have definitely found that I need to be more careful stretching and warming up and cooling down now. I have a reasonably high pain tolerance (I once rode a trailbike several miles of rocky trail out of the woods with a compound femur fracture, standing on one foot), but low-back and hip issues are a concern to me if I'm not careful with them. Back stuff slows me down alot more than knee pain. I'm trying to stay ahead of that by making stretching a habit, and by getting on my bicycle as much as possible.


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#137 GuanoLoco

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 08:10 AM

The back stuff is catching up to me, especially in the last year. Multiple lower disks, one upper. Almost always feeling some level of pain and a lot stiffer in the back and knees (patellar arthritis) than I was previously.

Basically just working through it and playing with a TENS unit for my back. Feels good but don't think it cures anything. Haven't embarked on a real program like yoga or something. I need to.
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