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#41 GuruOfGuns

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 12:03 PM

I observe many shooters doing everything they can to shoot a stage within a certain time, like the winning time, and in the process completely ignore points and what it takes to shoot accurately. It seems like they have decided they can either try to shoot accurately and be "too slow" in their minds, or go for it throwing control out the window and have a "good" stage time. They also seem optimistic their accuracy will eventually catch up with their speed, I have no idea how that is supposed to happen it's 180 degrees from my old fashioned ways.


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#42 ummm

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 12:22 PM

Also, 90/100 hits would be more realistic.  It's hard not to screw up at least 10% of the time.

 

99/100 is a pretty high standard, but I'd be surprised if a good gm can't hit an 8" plate at 25 yards in 1.5 seconds most of the time.

 

 

I agree with both of you on this, and that's why I said it would not be do-able, even for Ben.  99/100 is just asking too much.  


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#43 Mr_White

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 01:00 PM

I'd say pretty much the same stuff everyone else said.

 

Accuracy at speed, accuracy at speed, accuracy at speed.  Like FG Dots or 25 yd Bills or El Prez or The Derp. 

 

Efficiently switching between easier and harder targets - distance change up.

 

Shooting on the move would be good I'm sure.

 

Entering and exiting while efficiently integrating shooting is probably pretty big.


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#44 GuruOfGuns

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 02:35 PM

Shooting at small stuff up close seems like it would be a good substitue for shooting longer range but it's not. It's much easier for your eyes to compensate and switch focus the closer the target is, that's why reduced size targets don't really work IMO. If you can you need to work at 25 yds and in forcing that big change in focus and more importantly stayling glued to the sights when your brain is screaming that you need to be looking at that target way out there. The Guru is trying to help.


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#45 yomamma

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 05:40 PM

What do you guys see as the skill/drill/thing that we as a group could improve the most on? Just eyeballing it I think everyone could be a lot more accurate on long stuff... but that answer is not a whole lot of fun.

Maybe another possibility is shooting while moving... how do you guys feel about that?

I know the answer to the first choice and it is well worth it.  Number 2 is a good one, I feel all perky about it.  


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#46 Ateam111

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 07:47 PM

I am continually amazed by how many people can't shoot for shit SHO/WHO and don't do anything about it.

 

People don't practice things that make then cry.  You know I'm always open for a little self deprecation on the range.  Nothing wrong with doing a little 12yd WHO El Prez with no shoots all over the place covering shit up.  WHO bills drill will literally make you quit shooting.


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#47 Ateam111

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 08:01 PM

Ive read people talk about the mental game and how they use zen self reflection to be mentally ready for a match.  I believe you have to put the work in on the range, dry fire, rehearse winning and then go win.  The only mental game in my opinion is planning how to shoot the stage and remembering it.  The execution of that plan is a hard skill that you have reps on in training.  No matter what you tell yourself to get ready you have to know that you can win.  Some people don't possess the skill to win a match or even a stage, Im not talking about those people.  If you are an A/M/GM class shooter you can win matches.  Club, state, sectional or area.  You have to believe you can win.  Don't tell yourself shit, believe it.  Go out and show everyone at the match or in your squad that you deserve to win.  Attack every stage with the mindset that you are going to make it impossible for anyone to get 100% of the points.  Those are yours, just go get them.  Thats the mental game I prefer.


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#48 Mumbles

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 10:34 PM

Hey subq, ya old fella,

 

2014 called, they want their rule back.... :)



#49 BHill

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 12:07 AM

People don't practice things that make then cry.  You know I'm always open for a little self deprecation on the range.  Nothing wrong with doing a little 12yd WHO El Prez with no shoots all over the place covering shit up.  WHO bills drill will literally make you quit shooting.

Great Idea. WHO bill drills for me tomorrow. 7-10-15 yds.  If I don't quit I''l get gooder and if I do I'll save big$. Can't lose.



#50 Motosapiens

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 09:58 AM

Ive read people talk about the mental game and how they use zen self reflection to be mentally ready for a match.  I believe you have to put the work in on the range, dry fire, rehearse winning and then go win.  The only mental game in my opinion is planning how to shoot the stage and remembering it.  The execution of that plan is a hard skill that you have reps on in training.  No matter what you tell yourself to get ready you have to know that you can win.  Some people don't possess the skill to win a match or even a stage, Im not talking about those people.  If you are an A/M/GM class shooter you can win matches.  Club, state, sectional or area.  You have to believe you can win.  Don't tell yourself shit, believe it.  Go out and show everyone at the match or in your squad that you deserve to win.  Attack every stage with the mindset that you are going to make it impossible for anyone to get 100% of the points.  Those are yours, just go get them.  Thats the mental game I prefer.

What is all this 'winning' bullshit? Is it some magical way of shooting better than you can shoot? I can only shoot as well as I can shoot. If enough good people don't show up, and if I practiced enough that 'as well as I can shoot' is pretty good, then maybe that's enough to 'win'.

 

Or maybe the psycho-babble is just about not sabotaging yourself and shooting consistently worse than you can really shoot. I dunno, never been much into girlie self-help books.


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#51 ummm

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 10:49 AM

Mental game is a very real thing....for some people.  I've known some athletes who have multiple "headline" achievements to their names (gold medals, world championships, etc) and they are just a train wreck mentally and emotionally from performance pressure.  I'm talking weeping openly before big races, vomiting, the whole 9 yards.  If it weren't for (what some might term as shamanistic bullshit from) self-help books / sports psychologists / etc, they would collapse like a house of cards.  It's really quite a contrast from the public image.

 

And there are others, just as accomplished, who are absolute "no brains, no headache" types.  They don't even know or believe that there is such a thing as pressure.  A multiple gold-medal winner from the former USSR was so puzzled by the concept that someone could be sabotaged by their own mind that he could only conclude, "pressure is invention of announcer" (and by 'announcer' I think he meant what we would call overly-dramatic play-by-play guys or color guys), and yes, he then went on to beat me and the rest of the world that year to win another world championship.

 

Most are somewhere in between.  Most find that some attention paid to the subject of mental game (whether during normal training or from counseling or a book or whatever) is beneficial to some degree.  I think everyone should look into the subject in a few different ways, and take away what they want, while leaving the rest.  



#52 Motosapiens

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 11:08 AM

I suspect at the world elite level it may be a little different than at the 'winning a local match' level. But whatever, I've been competing at stuff all my life, and I've always felt like I needed to perform at my best level and not really worried about 'winning', since that depends on how other people perform.

 

Based on observing many of my fellow shooters, it seems like many of them screw themselves by worrying about 'winning', so they try to perform at a level they have not trained enough to support, which generally results in a train wreck.


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#53 ummm

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 12:41 PM

It might well be different, but from your description, it sounds pretty similar, doesn't it?  You say you don't have problems with the mental aspect of competitive shooting, but that you have observed many fellow shooters who do have issues to varying degrees with their mental game.   That's what I observed, too.  Some few at the extremes, most in the middle, who would probably benefit from some degree of better management of the mental game.



#54 Motosapiens

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 12:58 PM

I think they'd be better off just pulling their heads out of their asses. Pretty simple. Focus and try in training. Focus and just shoot in competition. Stop worrying about the outcome and just worry about the process.

 

By match day, you already shoot as well as you're going to be able to shoot that day. You can't do anything to get better, but you can do several things to avoid mistakes.


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#55 jabbermurph

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 01:19 PM

I think they'd be better off just pulling their heads out of their asses. Pretty simple. Focus and try in training. Focus and just shoot in competition. Stop worrying about the outcome and just worry about the process.

By match day, you already shoot as well as you're going to be able to shoot that day. You can't do anything to get better, but you can do several things to avoid mistakes.

"Stop worrying" is the key.

#56 Mr_White

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 02:45 PM

Ive read people talk about the mental game and how they use zen self reflection to be mentally ready for a match.  I believe you have to put the work in on the range, dry fire, rehearse winning and then go win.  The only mental game in my opinion is planning how to shoot the stage and remembering it.  The execution of that plan is a hard skill that you have reps on in training.  No matter what you tell yourself to get ready you have to know that you can win.  Some people don't possess the skill to win a match or even a stage, Im not talking about those people.  If you are an A/M/GM class shooter you can win matches.  Club, state, sectional or area.  You have to believe you can win.  Don't tell yourself shit, believe it.  Go out and show everyone at the match or in your squad that you deserve to win.  Attack every stage with the mindset that you are going to make it impossible for anyone to get 100% of the points.  Those are yours, just go get them.  Thats the mental game I prefer.

 

I think that's pretty awesome.


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#57 dravz

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 05:39 PM

I bet most of our transitions aren't as precise as we think they are. Hoppy's dots are fucking killing me.
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#58 leas327

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 07:05 PM

I bet most of our transitions aren't as precise as we think they are. Hoppy's dots are fucking killing me.


Yay! High five for Hoppy's dots. I do decent (I think) on the first two. I can add in a reload and still hit the par time. I get my ass kicked on the reg with that up down transition shit. I tried to start a serious thread about Hoppys shit but it didn't gain any traction. Seriously underrated drill if you are honest with yourself about your sight picture.

#59 Motosapiens

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 07:11 PM

i like the hoppy drill. I suck at it, but I have been improving, and particularly improving my awareness of sight alignment when transitioning onto a target (i guess that's the point). It's also helping me snap my eyes to the next target, then focus on the sights as they come into the picture, which is generally doing good things for my shooting.

 

However, like anything in shooting, as soon as you focus on something, you get gooder at that thing, and badder at everything else, so this week I had to kick my own ass a bit to work on trigger control when doing fast transitions. Looking forward to a few hundred rounds of 32 degree live fire this weekend to see if I did enough, and see what else I got badder at in the meantime.


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#60 Ateam111

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 07:20 PM

I always try to go out and shoot my best at every match I go to but I also try to win every match I go to.  If you are not trying to win either the match, your division, class or whatever.  Why are you shooting a match?  There is a reason you score stages and the stats officer scores the match....to figure out who wins.  Thats what all the winning bull shit is.






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