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Undersizing 40S&W Brass

40S&W Tanfoglio Limited Witness Elite Limited Nosedive Brass Processing

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#21 Vagetarian

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 11:22 AM

It just baffles me the amount of time people spend trying to make something work that is a shitty design to begin with.  0.416 and fast powder = pressure spikes.  Fucking wipe the slate clean and eat the shit.  EAT DA POO POO!!!


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#22 BOHICA

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 11:24 AM

It just baffles me the amount of time people spend trying to make something work that is a shitty design to begin with. 0.416 and fast powder = pressure spikes. Fucking wipe the slate clean and eat the shit. EAT DA POO POO!!!


Did you miss the part about loading to 1.225" oal? Significantly more case volume than normal 40.

#23 Vagetarian

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 11:29 AM

Background:

I have been looking to switch to limited division for nearly a year now and finally found the pistol I was looking for. I picked up a Tanfoglio Witness Elite Limited in 40S&W in October and I've been working on reliable function since then. Admittedly I have caused myself undue problems by my choice in bullets and powders limiting me to loading longer than 1.200" as I had stockpiled several thousand 200 grain bullets prior to finding the gun. Prior to switching to limited, I had shot single stack and loaded 45 ACP using fast pistol powders like Bullseye, VV N310 and WST, so those were the powders I had on hand starting the 40S&W project.

 

Admittedly you're fucking yourself in the first place and should quit trying to reengineer a Kia to run a big block.  Not impossible but frivolous and not at all streetable.


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#24 BOHICA

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 11:31 AM

Admittedly you're fucking yourself in the first place and should quit trying to reengineer a Kia to run a big block. Not impossible but frivolous and not at all streetable.


Wholeheartedly agree - but I am so far up this shit creek I couldn't identify a paddle if it slapped me in the beanbag.

#25 JaeOne3345

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 11:56 AM

All this GRX, U Die, and roll sizing shit...

 

The hundo and EGW case gauges are pretty damn tight. I shoot nothing but range pick up brass and a lot of is "Glock'd" or whatever you wanna call it. 

 

I use a basic Lee sizing die, not the undersized one. It sizes my brass just fine. They all drop into the Hundo. If I had a bras that dropped into the hundo that didn't fit into my barrel I would have the smith address the chamber and open it just a tad.

 

Those magazines sound like pieces of shit. I've seen people discuss all these hacks on enos. Fuck that. Sell that thing on your local gun forum to someone and get a 2011 or a CZ Tac Sport.  

 

What an absolute waste of time. 


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#26 BOHICA

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 12:04 PM

All this GRX, U Die, and roll sizing shit...

The hundo and EGW case gauges are pretty damn tight. I shoot nothing but range pick up brass and a lot of is "Glock'd" or whatever you wanna call it.

I use a basic Lee sizing die, not the undersized one. It sizes my brass just fine. They all drop into the Hundo. If I had a bras that dropped into the hundo that didn't fit into my barrel I would have the smith address the chamber and open it just a tad.

Those magazines sound like pieces of shit. I've seen people discuss all these hacks on enos. Fuck that. Sell that thing on your local gun forum to someone and get a 2011 or a CZ Tac Sport.

What an absolute waste of time.


To clarify...the issue these guns have is not with chambering the rounds. Even the rounds causing the nosedive issue would plunk in the barrel just fine. The issue is with suitable mag availability and feed geometry. Agree on the huge time commitment. I just can't justify all the expense of offloading used gear and buying more expensive gear.

#27 JaeOne3345

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 12:07 PM

To clarify...the issue these guns have is not with chambering the rounds. Even the rounds causing the nosedive issue would plunk in the barrel just fine. The issue is with suitable mag availability and feed geometry. Agree on the huge time commitment. I just can't justify all the expense of offloading used gear and buying more expensive gear.

 

Yes, I realize you were referring to the sizing being necessary for the nose dives, but I was talking about everyone else mentioning undersized dies and GRX devices. 

 

You can't justify the expense? I would agree with that logic if your shit worked. But you're going through a ton of stupid hacks just to make your shit work. I wouldn't even feel comfortable with that gun at a match mentally and it would fuck my head up.

 

It's just not worth it.

 

Aside from the recent nut hugging, there's a reason why many people avoid those tanfo guns.


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#28 BOHICA

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 12:13 PM

Reliability in matches has been 100%. I have experienced 2 malfs in 1500 rounds, both when function testing loads and brass processes that were deemed unacceptable. When shooting with brass processed as described, function is flawless

#29 Motosapiens

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 12:49 PM

don't they sell other kinds of powders?

 

I bought a limited gun in august. i had 180 gr bullets and wasn't comfortable with clays for major, so bought some red dot, used the same press settings (lee dies) I used for 40 minor in production, and loaded a bunch of rounds. Everything ran perfectly right out of the box.

 

but i am too lazy to tinker with stuff that works.


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#30 GuanoLoco

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 12:59 PM

I think we finally found something dumber than Limited.


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#31 BOHICA

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 01:13 PM

don't they sell other kinds of powders?

I bought a limited gun in august. i had 180 gr bullets and wasn't comfortable with clays for major, so bought some red dot, used the same press settings (lee dies) I used for 40 minor in production, and loaded a bunch of rounds. Everything ran perfectly right out of the box.

but i am too lazy to tinker with stuff that works.


They do, but I have a lot of powder to use up before switching. I am considering exhausting the components I have now and then switching to loading 40 short and picking up some K40 mag tubes and go that route to eliminate the extra brass processing described above. It would be nice to load range brass with no fuss.

#32 JaeOne3345

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 01:47 PM

Reliability in matches has been 100%. I have experienced 2 malfs in 1500 rounds, both when function testing loads and brass processes that were deemed unacceptable. When shooting with brass processed as described, function is flawless

 

 

But that process sucks and is a royal pain in the ass. 


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#33 Motosapiens

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 01:53 PM

They do, but I have a lot of powder to use up before switching. I am considering exhausting the components I have now and then switching to loading 40 short and picking up some K40 mag tubes and go that route to eliminate the extra brass processing described above. It would be nice to load range brass with no fuss.

 

Interesting thought process. See I would just set the other powder aside, figuring I would use it someday for something, and purchase some appropriate powder for the current task, but as I said, I'm pretty lazy.  Same with boolits. I have 5-7k of 40 boolits that are just going to sit there while I shoot 9 and 45 most of this year. But someday I'll shoot those 40's.


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#34 BOHICA

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 01:55 PM

Interesting thought process. See I would just set the other powder aside, figuring I would use it someday for something, and purchase some appropriate powder for the current task, but as I said, I'm pretty lazy. Same with boolits. I have 5-7k of 40 boolits that are just going to sit there while I shoot 9 and 45 most of this year. But someday I'll shoot those 40's.


I am blessed with a very difficult to appease wife who would freak if I tried that.

#35 ToddKS

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 02:05 PM

Not sure if serious... This time of year you should have 10-20k bullets in inventory anyway. You said you only had a couple thousand of the 200gr so just buy 10k 180gr and get your inventory up to par. Does she run the chrono? If not how will she know you aren't loading the 200's. Same for the powder. If you don't have at least 100 pounds then you are just replenishing for 2015. Again, how will she know which is in use.

#36 Motosapiens

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 02:12 PM

I am blessed with a very difficult to appease wife who would freak if I tried that.

I am blessed with a wife who thinks all guns look the same and has no say in my shooting purchases. I think perhaps you are doing it wrong in this aspect of your life as well.


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#37 BHill

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 02:17 PM

Maybe less dry fire in the shower and more live fire in the sack would help your core problem.

Marriage counseling is just one of the many doodie services available online.
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#38 BOHICA

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 02:23 PM

Maybe less dry fire in the shower and more live fire in the sack would help your core problem.

Marriage counseling is just one of the many doodie services available online.


I literally laughed at my phone - nice one!

#39 BOHICA

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 02:25 PM

Not sure if serious...This time of year you should have 10-20k bullets in inventory anyway. You said you only had a couple thousand of the 200gr so just buy 10k 180gr and get your inventory up to par. Does she run the chrono? If not how will she know you aren't loading the 200's.Same for the powder. If you don't have at least 100 pounds then you are just replenishing for 2015. Again, how will she know which is in use.



What I should have and what I do have are not equal. My wife maintains our finances so no fooling there. 10k bullets = 1100 bucks.

#40 ToddKS

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 02:40 PM

As others have already stated you need to fix the root cause problem. You have chosen wisely by coming here for advice on the matter.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: 40S&W, Tanfoglio, Limited, Witness Elite Limited, Nosedive, Brass Processing

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