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Gabe White's method for shooting with both eyes open


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#1 Sprewell

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 02:51 PM

I'm waiting patiently.  It sucks shooting with one eye closed.


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#2 ToddKS

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 02:57 PM

I was having trouble with this. Now I have a Delta Point on my pistol. Solved the problem immediately.

#3 ZachJ

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 03:09 PM

I'm waiting patiently.  It sucks shooting with one eye closed.

Keep both eyes open at the same time?


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#4 Will

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 04:57 PM

Is this what your looking for:

http://pistol-traini...articles/vision

#5 Sprewell

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 05:03 PM

My eyesight is too bad to read all that.



#6 NickBlasta

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 05:48 PM

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#7 Larry Costa

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 09:10 PM

Um, I think he keeps both his eyes open...

Then he has this idea about how eyes work that basically tells Brian Enos to go back to school..


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#8 Big Gay Al

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 09:18 AM

Word to the wise. DO NOT keep your eyes open when shooting.

 

 

 

Stings.


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#9 Buck Turgidson

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 11:16 AM

Word to the wise. DO NOT keep your eyes open when shooting.

 

 

 

Stings.

 

Get a grip on yourself......


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#10 GuruOfGuns

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 12:11 PM

If you want to win you have to learn how to go to snake eyes. Or be killed on the streets.


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#11 Mr_White

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 03:15 PM

As I have continued talking with people about how they use their vision, and tried to teach some people the at-will focal shift, I have come to believe that the vision document is really useful for some people, but totally pointless for many more of them.

I think I am in a tiny, tiny minority in basically shooting with a hard front sight focus on just about every shot. So many of the top people get so much good work done with target focused shooting that it can't be dismissed, even if I haven't found it useful myself. And I need to give that another try sometime. Maybe I'll realize something that I didn't before.

There is so much individual variation in vision and perception of vision, that 'see what you need to see' is very true. A total cop-out when it comes to specifics, but it is fundamentally true.
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"Conscience is our guide, peace is our shelter, beauty and perfection is our life."- Bruce Leroy

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#12 Sprewell

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 03:26 PM

I have been trying, off and on, to shoot with both eyes open for 45 years now.  Started with my dad trying to teach me how to hit a tin can thrown up in the air with a bb gun. 

 

I'm fairly well resigned to shooting with a squint until I finally have to get an optic of some kind.



#13 Moustache6

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 03:39 PM


 Once you master the snake eyed technique you'll be all set


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#14 Buck Turgidson

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 03:55 PM

There is so much individual variation in vision and perception of vision, that 'see what you need to see' is very true. A total cop-out when it comes to specifics, but it is fundamentally true.

 

You may be right in the context of handguns with metallic sights, but not when it comes to rifles with metallic sights.

 

It is impossible to shoot a rifle with any degree of precision unless the front sight (be it a post or a ring aperture) is in very sharp focus.  While you may be able to get away with a sloppy front sight focus at relatively close distances (200 yds and in) and large (torso size) targets when it comes to target games that won't be good enough.


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#15 subQ

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 05:53 AM

As I have continued talking with people about how they use their vision, and tried to teach some people the at-will focal shift, I have come to believe that the vision document is really useful for some people, but totally pointless for many more of them.

I bet if you condensed that down and started with 1. what it looks like with a pencil or fingertip held at arms length... more people would 'get' it.

 

Or go with a youtube vid, seems to be the thing now. Exclusive content = dollar bill$$.



#16 Moustache6

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 01:12 PM

Mr White
A unique variation to my vision that I still don't fully understand is that unless I do a 50% squint in my left eye I'll see double target & gun regardless of where convergence and/or accommodation are set, happens with hard target focus, hard front sight focus, and total focus  (adjusting visual focus so that there is an equal amount of definition on target, front sight, and rear sight).  There are times when the way my vision works has a positive impact on my shooting, but when shooting a pistol I feel like it's slowing me down and costing me a few .10's of a second as my eyes & brain try to adjust to the proper focus needed to break an accurate shot.  Do you have any thoughts on how I could improve or retrain the way my vision works for optimal performance?

 

 

Additional details: Dual eye dominance (perhaps zero eye dominance is the correct term?) with 20/10 vision, able to perform "at-will focal shift" for as long as I can recall and always shoot everything with both eyes open regardless of sighting method (irons, optics, magnified optics).



#17 Mr_White

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 03:01 PM

Well...A fundamental belief I have about normal binocular vision, and I *think* this is settled science, is that the only thing a person sees a true single image of, is the spot/thing that is converged on. The image of everything else should be doubled. Most of those double images are hard to perceive because they are in the periphery, and as soon as you look at them to verify, they become a single image. And I think the brain usually disregards those double images anyway. But I also think there are many aspects of vision that I don't understand, so I would definitely defer to what a person says they see, vs. what I think they should be seeing.


If you are seeing both double targets AND double guns/sights at the same time, to me that means that you are converging neither on the target, nor on the front sight, and instead either converging on some other point, or not actually converging at all. I realize that may be wrong in your case because of factors unknown to me. But - suppose you had some small disorder affecting convergence/divergence - think lazy eye or crosseyed, or anything related, where your eyes don't coordinate and point at the same spot very well - that might explain it, and closing or squinting an eye would be a readily available and natural way to manage the problem. Do you have anything like that going on? Do you get the double image thing happening at times other than when you are shooting?


I am kind of thinking out loud here and grasping at the only things I know of, not trying to say there is something wrong with you. Actually there is something wrong with a lot of us, myself included, so maybe there is something wrong with you. There is definitely something wrong with me. More than one thing really.
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#18 Twinkie

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 03:08 PM

If your eyes don't converge due to being a defective unit, it might make sense to tape over your non-dominant eye?

#19 Sprewell

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 03:32 PM

If your eyes don't converge due to being a defective unit, it might make sense to tape over your non-dominant eye?

 

Why do you think tape is better than squinting?  It bugs me to have the tape on there given the amount of shooting versus not shooting time at a match.  



#20 Mr_White

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 03:34 PM

If your eyes don't converge due to being a defective unit, it might make sense to tape over your non-dominant eye?


Yes, I think so. That's going to deal with the double image problem here and now. Then in the long term the hope is that the brain weights input from the dominant eye heavily enough that later, when the occlusion over the non dominant eye is removed, the non dominant eye's image will be disregarded by the brain since it's busy paying attention to the dominant image.
9254418645_6df4042018.jpg

"Conscience is our guide, peace is our shelter, beauty and perfection is our life."- Bruce Leroy

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