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Gabe White's method for shooting with both eyes open


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#21 Mr_White

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 03:36 PM

Why do you think tape is better than squinting? It bugs me to have the tape on there given the amount of shooting versus not shooting time at a match.

I think the argument in favor of tape would be avoiding facial tension, and possible vision retraining in the long term.
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#22 Sprewell

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 03:44 PM

I'm also looking at this from the perspective of shooting steel challenge and GSSF versus USPSA.  So, somewhere between 60 and 120 seconds of actual shooting versus half a day of standing around, painting targets and watching people that can't shoot, shoot.

 

I'm aggravated with the GSSF btw.  Last two matches I'm going to have three second place finishes in the amateur divisions.  Freaking ringers.



#23 Twinkie

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 03:47 PM

Well, it's a thing from birth and my brain already disregards my non-dominant eye, for the most part. But sometimes I get awful double vision and so shoot right into NS or HC. Surgery to bring eyes into convergence is probably the answer, but seems risky as hell. I have one good eye, why not just go cyclopean for shooting?

There is the fashion faux pas of tape over a lens, but I just need some nice LED shades or something gold to take pictures in and I'll be all set!
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#24 Mr_White

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 04:08 PM

I have one good eye, why not just go cyclopean for shooting?


Why not indeed. I'm not convinced that taping, squinting/closing, or target focused shooting actually holds anyone back. Maybe, but I would bet not especially.

There is the fashion faux pas of tape over a lens, but I just need some nice LED shades or something gold to take pictures in and I'll be all set!


I agree. Those led shutters were only one dollar at target. Funny how tape is a fashion faux pas but an eye patch is awesome.
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#25 ToddKS

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 05:16 PM

When I was trying the tape thing I had two pairs of glasses. I only wore the pair with the tape while shooting. As soon as I was done I would switch to the pair with no tape. If I walked around with the taped lens for too long I would feel a lot of eye strain. The problem I had with squinting was that sometimes I would forget to squint and not remember until I was 3 misses deep on a piece of steel. The real answer for me was switching to open and a dot sight. Exponentially increased my enjoyment of the game in large part because I no longer had to deal with the frustration of this problem. As a side note I shot shotguns for years with a dot on my glasses with no problem. The difference is the dot required for the shotgun games was much smaller and positioned high on the lens. For the dot to be effective for pistol I had to use a bigger dot in the middle of the lens. Different head position relative to the sight.

#26 Moustache6

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 11:03 PM

According to the Ophthalmologist that I see on a yearly basis, the only thing abnormal or "wrong" with my eyes is the lack of eye dominance.  Apparently it's a rare thing that only occurs in a small segment of the population, the eye Doc also says it's rare for a person of my age to have 20/10 vision as well.  I've tried to talk to the eye Doc about this stuff, but she appears to either be stumped or doesn't give two shits about helping me figure this out.

 

When I'm focused on the front sight the double image of the target is not very pronounced but its still noticeable to me, same goes for the slight ghost image of the gun.  When I attempt to get all three elements in equal focus (target, front sight, rear sight all slightly blurry) the ghost images are almost overlaid on top of each other making the ghost images almost unnoticeable.



#27 GuruOfGuns

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 03:35 PM

If your eyes don't converge due to being a defective unit, it might make sense to tape over your non-dominant eye?

 

 

Ehh i think the "unit" is the brain? Just saying, I ain't admitting anything except my unit is magnificent. Seriously from what I've read the brain does a lot of work, kinda photoshoping what comes in our eyes to make things seem right, it works for and against us. It will fill in the blanks so to speak so in many circumstances you see what you expect to see.  An example is how eye witness testimony isn't as dependable as people think.  

 

I wouldn't even give it a thought and just shoot with a taped lense or shut the off eye. Something that I experimented with is leaving both eyes open until the last "serious" part of aiming on tough shots, on hosing stuff I just shoot both eyes mostly just looking over the top of the gun. What I call "semi-hosing" is looking thru the sights but focused on the target, target focus more or less.

 

I do think it's important to settle on the method you will use to compensate for whatever vision problem and then be confident in it allowing you to keep the 'unit" focused on the other stuff.


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#28 GuruOfGuns

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 03:37 PM

Yes, I think so. That's going to deal with the double image problem here and now. Then in the long term the hope is that the brain weights input from the dominant eye heavily enough that later, when the occlusion over the non dominant eye is removed, the non dominant eye's image will be disregarded by the brain since it's busy paying attention to the dominant image.

 

Mr. White do you think shooting with one eye is much of a disadvantage in the competition we do? I'm thinking we don't have surprises as a rule, we know where to look and expect from the walk thru. Maybe it's not such a disadvantage unless we talk ourselves into it?


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#29 Twinkie

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 03:43 PM

I think the kind of shooting we do is not that disadvantaged by having a single eye. Speaking for myself, while I have a hard time guesstimating distance I see further targets mostly as just smaller. I've not really noticed a need for much peripheral vision, though I am sure it of benefit in navigating stages. 

 

I try not to make much of my vision as an excuse, because I really don't know how others see the world. I know my eye isn't holding me back. Especially now as I seem to have figured out how to cure the double-vision that would crop up from time to time as a distraction.


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#30 Sprewell

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 04:01 PM

 I know my eye isn't holding me back. 

 

Which brings us back to squint what you need to squint.  It kind of bugs me to not be able to shoot "the right way" but  I do better when I'm not thinking about it and just let myself do what I need to do to see the sights and target as best I can.


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#31 Mr_White

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 04:20 PM

do you think shooting with one eye is much of a disadvantage in the competition we do?


I think I don't factually know. Like the others, I only know how it works for me, and I can't really go back and experience things differently to compare them.

But, I do tend to think that there are people at the upper levels of shooting who squint, close, tape, and target focus so I think it can all be made to work very well and little deficiencies can end up masked in the overall package of skills and capabilities a given shooter possesses.
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#32 Hans3005

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 02:37 AM

If you look at the cz videos of matt hopkins he has tape over one of his lenses. Don't know if he actually does this at a match or if it was just in the video.

#33 subQ

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 06:43 PM

Mr. White is too modest. What he wrote in the PF article is the best way for most shooters, assuming they don't have a real problem like inability to converge clearly on a target. So for Twinkie, maybe tape. For Mustache6, definitely White's way. In the time it takes to converge on the front sight and accommodate to the front sight, you can stay converged on the target and change only the accommodation back to the sight. No double vision.

 

As discussed in several forums, if you can successfully skip the accommodation shift, you can save small chunks of time. Examples: stay back on the sight for plate racks; stay out on the targets for 12 yard open papers.



#34 dravz

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 04:57 PM

I think the kind of shooting we do is not that disadvantaged by having a single eye. Speaking for myself, while I have a hard time guesstimating distance I see further targets mostly as just smaller. I've not really noticed a need for much peripheral vision, though I am sure it of benefit in navigating stages. 
 
I try not to make much of my vision as an excuse, because I really don't know how others see the world. I know my eye isn't holding me back. Especially now as I seem to have figured out how to cure the double-vision that would crop up from time to time as a distraction.


Yeah I don't think of targets in our game as being closer or farther, but rather larger or smaller.
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#35 Moustache6

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 11:04 AM



The purpose of this visual training exercise is to condition your eyes to be faster and more precise with convergence and focusing, which should help with shooting. 

Curious to hear the thoughts of others with regards to trying this for a few months.  Seems to me that if the eyes can be corrected through visual training it would be a better approach to take versus; taping, squinting, shooting with one eye closed, or surgery...

these Brock strings are pretty cheap if too lazy to make one
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#36 ToddKS

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 11:19 AM

That is some interesting shit. My eyes tend to not want to make the X in the right place. Going to keep working this.

#37 GuruOfGuns

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 12:24 PM

Needing a grown up sounds creepy.


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#38 ToddKS

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 12:32 PM

And using an Asian guy for the demo is probably racist too.

#39 GuruOfGuns

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 01:29 PM

Yeh poor guy was blinking cause they made him take off his coke bottle glasses.


"I'm older and fatter than any of you dipshits."


#40 ZackJones

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 03:47 PM

They would sell more if they called it the Glock bead or CZ bead set.
Not to be confused with ZachJ




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