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Training Without a Timer


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#1 Ben

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 08:45 PM

How many of you have gone to the range and not used a timer while you were there?

Did you see any value in it?

 


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#2 aceinyerface

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 09:00 PM

ANY benefit, yes. Shooting > Not Shooting

For Getting better at USPSA, not for speed. I can work accuracy without a timer, but that is only one part of the equation, I do better with a timer.

I think about track and field, do they practice without a timer? I don't even know.

#3 nwhpfan

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 09:05 PM

I do some drills that don't have a real time element.  I do - do a lot of group shooting and accuracy shooting.  I also do the Pistol Forum Todd Green Dot Torture Drill from time to time.

 

I think for me it helps...but at the end of the day, it's what I can do under time so I do the overwhelming majority of my training with a timer.  Sometimes, I just need to see where my gun impacts at a certain range, or I need to be confident in how well it groups...or how well I can shoot it without time to know what and where to work to - to do it under time pressure.  I also...sometimes will practice a tough shot (partial no shoot, etc) just to know where I should put my sight.

 

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#4 GuanoLoco

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 09:38 PM

Nwhpfan has it right. There are some activities best done off the clock.

These days I almost always use a timer if I am there to train. Quantify time. Quantify accuracy. Quantify both.

If it is a fun/educational trip with or for others I leave the timer in the bag.
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#5 bpipe95

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 10:39 PM

How many of you have gone to the range and not used a timer while you were there?

Did you see any value in it?



Yes, I've been trying it recently to help engraine good habits.

I also do it when I'm trying to change something or learn something new.

#6 Woodieproject

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 11:28 PM

Yes. 

 

I do some drills that don't have a real time element.  

 

That's one reason. Another reason are the drills that I want to run cleanly but can't. Garcia dot drill is an example. I presume that I can set the par at 10 seconds but what's the point.

Third is that on the drills that I run regularly I can say if it was a good run or bad run without the timer. I can't say if it was a good run or great run but I can call my screw ups pretty accurately.  

 

What I don't like about not having a timer the most is not having a start signal. 


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#7 LeadChucker

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 12:39 AM

I always use a timer for live fire, but about 70-30 timer-no timer for dry fire. Depends on my purpose for that session

Of course at the moment I can't do fucking either and I'm getting pissed off about it

#8 Gecko 46

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 12:40 AM

As a newer shooter I find value in doing grip and sight work live and off the timer, especially since my wife has joined me in competitive shooting. Dry fire practice on those fundamentals is great but it helps me to do some of them live as well.



#9 J.A.Nine

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 05:34 AM

If I don't use a timer, it's because I forgot to charge the timer and my phone is dead. In that case, I'll work on distance shooting and drills that require a hard front sight focus because I didn't just drive 30 minutes to fuck around.


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#10 wchangose

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 05:45 AM

Rarely off the timer, only if the battery is dead.  A while back on the PPS you mentioned to Candice that she should be practicing off the timer and I've wondered about that.  Any great secrets you'd like to impart?



#11 GuanoLoco

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 07:45 AM

Towards the end of my dry fire sessions I have started running some 'random practice' drills around my dry fire ludus using the timer for a random start beep but not worrying about the time. Just mixing it up - different start positions, sequences, distances, moving, ports, reloading through all the mags on my belt, NS-obstructed partials at distance, etc.

I can put in a lot of reps in a short time when I don't have to worry about establishing a par time for each run.

After consideration, I think I need to do a LOT more of this.
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#12 Twinkie

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 08:17 AM

Rarely off the timer, only if the battery is dead. A while back on the PPS you mentioned to Candice that she should be practicing off the timer and I've wondered about that. Any great secrets you'd like to impart?


The reason was that I was chasing raw tunes and not focusing on correct technique. I tend to go a bit out of control because of my desire to shoot fast. Some people seem to need a par time or timer to get faster. I needed to remove the timer to get gooder. Speed wasn't my issue. For most people, it is.
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#13 T "G" O

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 08:51 AM

I don't think there any value in not using a timer. 

 

For USPSA type shooting, what would you be doing that doesn't at least require a start signal?  I think going to the range without a timer would be a waste of time... there isn't enough non-timer stuff that I'd during a practice session to make it worth it. 



#14 CB45

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 08:58 AM

How many of you have gone to the range and not used a timer while you were there?

Did you see any value in it?


Yes.

Yes.

#15 BOHICA

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 09:05 AM

I find that if I do a signifigant amount of timer involved dryfire and match shooting, my accuracy starts to suffer and I tend toward the full retard stage run with a mike or noshoot sprinkled in. When this happens I go burn 400 rounds working on 50 yard partials and 30 yard headshots with no timer and force myself to be patient enough to GET THE HITS.

Usually I shoot too conservatively the next match after that session, but in following matches I shoot really well with a good mix of high speed hosing with the appropriate level of front sight focus.

I just need to learn to sprinkle in more live fire practice BEFORE getting to the full retard phase. Preventative maintenance.

#16 Motosapiens

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 09:22 AM

Like twink alluded to, it's not hard to get your technique bent out of shape while chasing par times, and start getting sloppy on the trigger, and pulling your eyes off a target too soon. I've found it's helpful for me to do some untimed drills in both live fire and dry fire. I still use the timer for a start beep, and I sometimes even look at the times, but I try to pay no attention to them. I'm trying to teach myself to not rush or try, and just see the sights and press the trigger and get the hits, particularly on harder targets. I've been trying to go 1-1 on the plate rack at 22 yards and not worry about going faster than I can go.

 

Also been doing it in dryfire to really focus on watching the sights through the end of the trigger press before snapping my eyes to the next target. It's a pretty small portion of my training tho. It definitely helped me at yesterday's match. A few times I surprised myself with how fast I could shoot some difficult targets by just worrying about the sights instead of about how fast I thought I should go.


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#17 GuruOfGuns

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 09:24 AM

Maybe sometimes it's valuable to give complete focus to the process instead of the results.


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#18 aceinyerface

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 09:32 AM

The reason was that I was chasing raw tunes and not focusing on correct technique.

I was dry firing and not making it to the range as often as I should and I thought my draw was faster, but I wasn't getting the sights on target for the shot when I assumed. It showed right up in live fire and I fixed it. I did some more work and I am at 1.1 for my match speed draw w/A hit and .9 for my retard speed with a maybe A hit.

 

I still have more work to go.



#19 Sweet T

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 10:18 AM

When I'm "training" in both live fire and dry fire, I use a timer.  I need that push.

 

When I'm "preparing" for a match, I never use one in dry fire.  Usually the week of the match I'll put it away and stop chasing par times.

 

This may be a psychological thing for me, a subconscious switching of priorities.


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#20 Ateam111

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 11:37 AM

I never do anything that is not on the timer but I also don't ever do any practice that I'm not focusing on technique.  I think technique is the basis for everything.  If you are able to go really fast that is fine but you are putting the cart before the horse with being a good shooter.  If you have a good technical foundation you can always build speed.  Technique is reinforced through repetition the way speed is built by good technique.  It really depends on where you are skill level wise and what you are specifically working on.  For me personally using the timer to pick apart split, transitions, time between positions is what I need to improve.  






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