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Training Without a Timer


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#21 ummm

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 02:40 PM

I think there's value to using a timer as well as having some sessions away from the timer.   The mix would depend on the individual's needs at that time.  

 

A guy I've been shooting with has been rushing too many aspects of his shooting in order to beat the timer, and he's wondering why he's plateauing.   I've been trying to sell him on losing the timer for a bit in order to burn in some reps without the need to rush, so that he'll give himself the potential to build the speed he wants.  He ain't buyin' it.   Maybe he'll figure out another way to overcome his issues.



#22 GuruOfGuns

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 03:43 PM

Some days my 54 oz Pact timer is just too heavy and it takes a bunch of real estate on my belt. But if I just need par time the 1 lb Rogers will do the job like a champ.

 

cSpgMO3.jpg?1


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#23 sirveyr

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 04:41 PM

I use the timer for only the start beep most of the time.  I used to live and die by the timer, but I have gotten away from it. I am working on other aspects of my shooting that don't require a timer to practice lately.


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#24 GuanoLoco

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 04:46 PM

GoG, at your advanced age I figured you would be using one of these:

 

sand-clock.jpg


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#25 not that bryan

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 06:42 PM

I almost never train without the timer in dry fire. Leading up to a big match I'll back my par times down to what I can comfortably do and not push for speed, basically shoot at match speed.

In live fire I use a timer most of the time, but depending on what I'm working on it may be mainly for the start beep.

I'm naturally a turtle, so without the timer I'd never get faster. Not everyone is that way.

#26 GuruOfGuns

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 07:35 PM

GoG, at your advanced age I figured you would be using one of these:

 

sand-clock.jpg

 

Yes for night shoots this is better than the sundial I normally use.


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#27 Woodieproject

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 07:50 PM

There are multiple ways of getting a start signal without a timer. If you shoot at a busy public range, you can go at the sound of a next gun shot. If you train for real life, you can bluetooth your headset and listen to Costa yell "bust them" off of your Iphone. Etc, etc.


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#28 jayohee

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 12:09 AM

I've gotten frustrated with Distance Changeup type of drills because of the notion of 'time.' Once I took out the timer I could nail the drill 1:1 including the steel. With the timer I would need a makeup shot on steel 50-60% of the time.

I also like to dry fire without the timer as well. I find it makes me pay more attention to the sights and forces me to call my shots better.

#29 Sweet T

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 09:50 AM

I've gotten frustrated with Distance Changeup type of drills because of the notion of 'time.' Once I took out the timer I could nail the drill 1:1 including the steel. With the timer I would need a makeup shot on steel 50-60% of the time.
 

 

Isn't that partly the point?

 

Add some pressure to simulate a match situation and mess with your head?



#30 jayohee

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 12:08 AM

Isn't that partly the point?

Add some pressure to simulate a match situation and mess with your head?

Stage execution is a culmination of several different parts. Movement, sight discipline, mental programming etc etc. Training these things on a micro level is like isolating a muscle and building it. Do them separately in practice with confidence, then tie them in for a stage

#31 Twinkie

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 11:25 AM

I think my new method is to train with the timer, bit ignore it until analysis. Its not better or worse to be over or under some time. It's just data. Data that can be used to describe your performance.

I was practicing with Stubbs the other day and he was crushing me on a classifier. Looking at the splits showed his transitions and splits were consistently much faster than mine. So, in dry fire, I've been working to get better at driving the gun aggressively and in directing my focus to the next aiming point as soon as I'm done with the current one. I wouldn't have known to do that without a timer.
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#32 the_swede

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 03:18 PM

Bumping this old sucker again:

I've been dryfiring regurarly since last October and seen good results speed wise were I've been able to close the gap on some of the top guys in my area. On the orher hand I've been experiencing more nasty crashes with mikes and no-shoots ruining more than one match for me. I think I've been doing almost all my dry fire in speed mode. I'm planning to put the timer away completly until Christmas. Any value in this or should I just simply "concentrate" more on getting good hits under time pressure.

#33 Twinkie

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 03:54 PM

Bumping this old sucker again:

I've been dryfiring regurarly since last October and seen good results speed wise were I've been able to close the gap on some of the top guys in my area. On the orher hand I've been experiencing more nasty crashes with mikes and no-shoots ruining more than one match for me. I think I've been doing almost all my dry fire in speed mode. I'm planning to put the timer away completly until Christmas. Any value in this or should I just simply "concentrate" more on getting good hits under time pressure.

 

Look at why you get the mikes and no-shoots. Then, fix that. Easier said than done, as I'm pretty sure why I get mine but fixing them is pretty difficult so far.



#34 Motosapiens

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 10:13 AM

I've been dryfiring regurarly since last October and seen good results speed wise were I've been able to close the gap on some of the top guys in my area. On the orher hand I've been experiencing more nasty crashes with mikes and no-shoots ruining more than one match for me. I think I've been doing almost all my dry fire in speed mode. I'm planning to put the timer away completly until Christmas. Any value in this or should I just simply "concentrate" more on getting good hits under time pressure.

 

That seems like a long time to go without using a timer. I would probably just reduce the amount of speed training significantly, but don't abandon it entirely, especially for reloads, movement, etc...

 

I'm beginning to think that Steve Anderson has the right idea with 'speed mode' and 'match mode'. I've been experimenting the last few weeks with separating them more clearly. The closer I get to a major match, the more work I do in match mode, worrying only about what I can see, not about the timer. trying to see the sights for both shots, and shoot as early as I can see the sights.

 

Its very easy to develop bad habits (jerking the trigger, pulling off early, etc...) in speed mode, but it can definitely help you develop a feel for going faster, and make going fast the new normal. It has become clear to me tho that trying to go fast in a match leads to worse hits, less awareness of the sights, and is not signficantly faster than shooting what you see.

 

It's hard to depend on your vision because it feels slower, and for a week or so it may actually be slower, but I think as a mid-pack A I have just about plateaued and will not get much better without learning to call every shot.  I did have a no-shoot and a Delta in the match this weekend, but I saw them both as they happened, and was not surprised at all, so that made me believe I am starting to make some progress. I did not catch myself pulling off any targets early, another sign of progress. Even when I get the hits, I have been aware that my eyes have sometimes already left by the time the 2nd shot breaks.

 

But I'm still figuring this out too, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. If I make M next year, then you can believe me.


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#35 Ben

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 10:18 AM

I trained without a timer today and it was glorious


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#36 Buck Turgidson

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 12:37 PM

I trained without a timer today and it was glorious

 

Was the weather nice?


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#37 GuruOfGuns

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 07:24 AM

I tried to use one of those eelektronical timers but the dang batteries run out before I git finished.


"I'm older and fatter than any of you dipshits."


#38 not that bryan

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 06:56 AM

I tried to use one of those eelektronical timers but the dang batteries run out before I git finished.


You can always use your sundial as a backup.

#39 LeadChucker

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 08:29 AM

You can always use your sundial as a backup.


Might be the new timer for us old fucks in CO!

#40 Ben

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 01:09 PM

https://www.youtube....h?v=vkJpI_EUQZE






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