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#41 StrongHandOnly

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 04:44 PM

I am just trying to say that someone who choses to shoot Limited minor is at a disadvantage. We don't need anymore fucking divisions! We should just get rid of the disadvantage by increasing the mag capacity to make Limited minor less of a disadvantage. I am not suggesting that anything else change.

Revolver major = 6
Revolver minor = 8
34% capacity advantage

Single Stack major = 8
Single Stack Minor = 10
25% capacity advantage

Limited Major = 21
Limited minor = 24 if you're lucky
15% capacity advantage

I think we should increase the capacity advantage closer to 25% or 26 to 27 rounds. To do this, the mag would have to go beyond 140mm. Someone would have to make a bigger aftermarket base pad to accompany the extra rounds.

I think this would make the Limited minor disadvantage shrink.

#42 JimmyO

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 05:11 PM

I see no advantage until you get stages with more than 40 rounds.

#43 ny32182

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 05:32 PM

One reload is one reload.

Right now you can shoot major with or without reloads... SS or L10 vs limited.

There is nowhere to go if you want to shoot minor without reloads. Not saying I really do, just that it's a hole in the lineup.
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#44 OrdinaryStandardShooter

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 05:47 PM

One reload is one reload.
 

^ This... adding capacity for minor doesn't help with stages capped at 32 rounds. If you 'limit' major to 15 rounds, that forces 2 reloads on a 32 round stage.


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#45 thegrandwazoo

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 05:58 PM

Really seems to me this is a solution looking for a problem.

 

Don't want to shoot Lim because minor? Shoot Prod. Don't wanna shoot open because scared? Shoot PO/CO. Don't want fat mags shoot SS. Older than dirt shoot Revo.

 

And truth be told Limited is dumb.

 

This thread is the first time I have ever heard some say they wish there was Minor limited and to the "Major goes against the idea of open" that could not be further form the truth. The game started as Open, it was man up an run what you brung. 

 

I would be OK if there was only one PF but it would have to be 165.


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#46 Conspiracy Brother

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 07:26 PM

Oh man, great idea Gabe! Old major power factor, hard cover no longer is, and shoot through scoring on all NS targets! Outstanding!

#47 Conspiracy Brother

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 07:28 PM

I don't see much advantage with 15 rounds on 8 shot arrays.


Do you guys really shoot shitty matches with 8 shot arrays?
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#48 StrongHandOnly

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 10:30 PM

The bottom line is that I think that Limited minor is not competitive.... and so do the majority of others. Why should we, as a group of budget wise shooters dismiss that? It should be closer to a wash if one chooses to shoot limited major or minor with their respective advantages and disadvantages.... but it is not a wash. I think limited minor is punished too much. I think we could bring it closer to a wash with an increase in mag capacity for choosing to shoot minor. With the current rules in place it is no where near a wash. I believe it would add to the integrity of the sport to make Limited minor competitive and let the shooter choose which caliber to shoot. I do not believe we can perfectly make it a wash, but we can come a little closer with an increase in mag capacity closer to 26 or 27.

I didn't invent this problem. It existed long before I got involved in this sport. Maybe I am the first person to address it.

#49 StrongHandOnly

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 10:49 PM

Fuckin right I have some skin in this argument. Notice my user name. I shoot Limited minor for a reason. I noticed that shooting 9 minor in Limited was punished what I think is a bit too much as the rules stand today. The fact that none of the super squaders choose to shoot Limited minor back my point up. Shooting Limited minor is fucking stupid because it is too big of a disadvantage. Increase the mag length rule to 155mm or even 170mm. Make it not stupid. Make it more of a dilemma.

#50 StrongHandOnly

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 11:03 PM

^ This... adding capacity for minor doesn't help with stages capped at 32 rounds. If you 'limit' major to 15 rounds, that forces 2 reloads on a 32 round stage.

Not every stage is 32 rounds. It will never be perfect. But we could make it better.

#51 GuanoLoco

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 11:30 PM

Mag capacity is not the only way to address the discrepancy.
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#52 (Sh)ItJustGotReal

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 12:57 AM

I don't see much advantage with 15 rounds on 8 shot arrays.

People make this statement statement over and over. I truly feel sorry for them if they are only shooting stages that are go here shoot 8, go there shoot 8, and so on.

You can't really get away from it at indoor matches but there's no excuse for it outdoors other than shitty stage design.
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#53 Roons

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 02:03 AM

This is stupid.  If you make Limited minor competitive with Limited major, why the fuck would I want to shoot major?
1) Costs more for bullets
2) More recoil 
3) Less mag capacity
 
The 155mm mag solution? Now another tool needs to be created for checking (not that anyone ever checks).  
What else are you going to do? Changing scoring?  There isn't a lot of wiggle room between 5-4-4-2 and 5-3-3-1.
 
"I think the general consensus is that there is no benefit to shooting Limited in MINOR."  That's the fucking point.
 
If you want to shoot minor, shoot Production. 
 
If you want to be a baller, shoot Limited minor.

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#54 OrdinaryStandardShooter

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 04:32 AM

FWIW, when this game was invented, major was ~200PF  and the only platform available was a .45 with a capacity of ~8 rounds, minor was 125PF and most people shot Hi-Powers that had a capacity of ~14 rounds. You could be competitive with a Hi-Power, it wasn't easy, you had to hit a lot of A's, and you had to do it in a hurry, but you could do it, and it wasn't some sort of anomoly.

 

I don't understand the push back on this, the name of the game is hit factor. The guy with the best score doesn't always win, nor does the guy with the lowest time. Shooting minor should mean that you're buying time at the cost of points per round, major would be buying points per round at the cost of time. The way it sits now, shooting major (especially at 165 PF), you get the points, but don't have to pay for them with time. Shooting minor costs you points, but you don't get any time in return, so there's no benefit with respect to how the game is played.

 

If you're going to allow alternate solutions to the problem, I think they should both be viable, and I think the game is more interesting when both solutions are viable, but maybe I'm all by my onesies...


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#55 yomamma

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 05:45 AM

minor is for fags.  i'm surprised more of you fucktards don't shoot it.  


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#56 GuanoLoco

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 07:37 AM

Shooting pussified major less accurately for distinctive advantage over minor is an insult to the men of the past that shot real major PF loads - and liked it.
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#57 Flexmoney

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 09:51 AM

Major should enjoy the same benefits in uspsa as it does in the streets: tiny bit bigger hole so it's easier to touch the scoring line, better ability to knock down irrelevant stuff like precariously balanced steel targets, and a little better ability to shoot through barriers. Not 33-50% extra points when you didn't shoot someone in the right place.

 

 

Street loads, ftw.  


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#58 M1911A1

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 10:31 AM

Shoot more A's.. seems pretty simple really..



#59 barry owens

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 11:17 AM

Combat tactics clause. If i shoot a baddy in the A twice with hardball and drop him, then he is dead and his fellow baddies continue to create mayhem w/o him.

 

But, If I shoot him with my minor niner in the A/C, said baddie is flopping on the ground and crying for his mommy. Now two of his fellow baddies must come and assist him and are now out of the fight.

 

 

minor wins the fight and should be scored as such.

 

Operate.


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#60 Sprewell

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 11:26 AM

 said baddie is flopping on the ground and crying for his mommy.

 

Operate.

 

They should put kneecaps on the targets.


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