Jump to content


Photo

Apex Forward Set Sear and Competition Upgrade.


  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1 RDS

RDS

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 465 posts

Posted 08 January 2016 - 07:18 PM

This is my review.  It represents my opinion only.  It is based on what I like and want.  I am not a good shooter competitive wise (C or D class), but good enough to know my firearm and what I like, and don't like.  I also kick Timmy's ass at the range so I am not THAT bad.

 

Alright so many of you are familiar with my fubar upgrade of the flat face trigger which is not production legal (one would think a competition upgrade might warn you that it is not legal in the major competitions--ahh yes caveat empor).  Luckily after going full retard, I took a step back and fixed my screw up.  What I ended up with is:

 

Standard M&P Frame/Slide

Apex Hard Sear

Apex Silver Trigger Reset Spring (it is my understanding that the green spring increases trigger pull to around 5-6 lbs).

Apex Striker Block Kit

Standard M&P Trigger.

 

What I received in the package (via Midway).  

 

The Apex Flat Face Trigger Kit.

No Instructions.

No Parts list (with multiple weight/strength Trigger return springs, it would be nice to know the weight of each rather than a google search).

 

In order to complete this upgrade I also got the Apex armor's block (doubles for Glocks--have a few of those around).

Rest of stuff I used:

Set of punches

Set of punch starters

Brass Hammer

New Sear Block Housing w/ 1/8'' plunger (required)

 

Also note that S&W only sells sear block housingings with a Magazine AND external Safety (more on that in a bit).

 

So i went a you-tubing and the install is fairly simple (uhh watch youtube).  Punch out your pins, remove trigger, yadda yadda yadda.

I am not a gun smith.  I am competent with a hammer.

Entire upgrade took about 2-3 hours going slow--chasing down springs, etc...

 

What this did:

lowered my trigger pull from 6-7 lbs to 3-4 lbs. (I don't have a trigger pull gauge--it is comparable to a Glock with a "-" trigger or a 4 lb 1911. (Because I pulled both of them out and compared).

Moved the engagement of the sear forward (less take up).  Still much over-travel.

 

What it did not do 

Provide positive reset after the slide cycles. Actually there is no reset--you can't tell if you have reset the trigger or not.

 

Pros:

Overall--works as advertised.  Brings trigger engagement forward, lowers trigger pull to 3-4 lbs.

 

Cons:

Still no positive reset on that blasted junk S&W trigger.

The flat faced trigger did have a solid reset (and little overtravel), however as mentioned: IT IS NOT PRODUCTION LEGAL DUE TO THE OVERTRAVEL STOP.

S&W sear block housing issues.

 

Sear Block Housing Fix.

S&W sear block housings are confusing, and a PITA--they are not clear AT ALL when searching Brownells, Midway etc..  As mentioned--only one for sale is the magazine and external safety.  Problem--this renders your S&W unable to fire without a magazine inserted (Gee I wonder where that might be a problem).

 

The fix(es)

First if you are like me and do not have an external safety, the new sear block housing has a surprise for you.  It has a safety mechanism build in that pushes the trigger bar away from the sear.  The fix is simple.  Hit it with a small punch and remove it.  Yes I broke it.  I don't have an external safety.  If I wanted to shoot with an external safety I would have bought an external safety model (/end rant).

 

Second--the magazine safety.

The magazine safety is located on the same pin as the takedown lever/sear disengagement lever for disassembly.  Simply slide that pin out.  You can remove both safely (reportedly) or if you are like me, I took the spring from my old sear block housing and used it to hold the takedown level/sear disengament lever in place (the stock spring in the new Sear Block is too small).  Other users report using pen springs shortened or clipped.  However, I figure if you have to buy a NEW sear block housing, you probably have the OLD sear block housing, so just use that spring.  Use a small punch to help guide the spring in and get it compressed with the takedown lever, re-insert pin and viola.

 

Bottom line--did it work?  Partially (Taking a rosy view that I started with a Competition Spring Set only)

 

Would I recommend? NO.  If you have no trigger reset and the overtravel and take up are still atrocious, you have really have not fixed the issue  with the M&P trigger.  Plus with 4 hours labor and assuming I just got the competition kit, I'm still at $80 worth of parts, major disasembly, several hours of my time, and I still don't have as good a trigger as my Glock with a $25 part that took half the time to install. (I hate Glocks, but dammit they work).  Plus no instructions/parts list on the package--I am a diagram kinda person, it left a bad taste with me that my instructions were "youtube" (Or not even a note that said "go to www.idiotboughtwrongtrigger.com for installation instructions").  

 

Also advertising a competition upgrade that is not legal for USPSA.   Not a fan.  Lets be honest, people don't use M&Ps for Limited or Open.  Its a production gun. And we still have a crappy trigger, just lighter (assuming you leave the actual trigger out, but keep the internals--which is the majority of the upgrade). Thats a lot of time and money to not fix a problem.  What it did give me was more confidence in upgrading my guns for my inevitable switch to something more appropriate for competition (I would shoot my Glock, but its a .45, 9 is cheaper).  However at this point the gun is not holding me back.  So I will stop writing and go practice.

 

 

TLDR: Apex competition kit makes trigger pull lighter and shortens uptake.  No change in over-travel(lots),  or felt reset(none).  Flat Face Trigger is nice, but not prod legal.  Can't put lipstick on a pig.  Practice more. Gear Queer less. As discussed below, reset is improved, but the forward travel is so huge it makes no difference (for me).


Edited by RDS, 08 January 2016 - 11:28 PM.

It's not about winning, it's about emasculating your friends in front of their loved ones

 

 


#2 ZachJ

ZachJ

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,128 posts
  • LocationBC Canada

Posted 08 January 2016 - 07:41 PM

Sounds like buying a shadow and doing base upgrades would be better?

How much did this cost you?

Deliberate, then obliterate.™

 

I am unafraid to miss.


#3 peterthefish

peterthefish

    Banned.

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,999 posts

Posted 08 January 2016 - 07:44 PM

TLDR - still blaming other people because your an idiot. Good to see that some things never change.

#4 ZackJones

ZackJones

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,679 posts

Posted 08 January 2016 - 07:53 PM

It's caveat emptor - do you even Latin bro?

Seriously though this is one of the primary reasons I sold my M&P's and went back to Glock. I can work on a Glock but working on an M&P seemed like a big PITA.
Not to be confused with ZachJ

#5 Roons

Roons

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 462 posts

Posted 08 January 2016 - 07:56 PM

Is there a reason you didn't put in the Apex Reset Assist Mechanism?  That solves the whole "no trigger reset" issue.   https://store.apexta.../Details/191847

 

Anyways, blah blah blah on Doodie, you either shoot a Tanfo, CZ, or Glock.  

 

XDs, M&Ps, Sigs, etc all get the "you're not in the cool kid club, go sit over there with the rest of the losers".  However, everyone agrees its not that gun that makes you shoot well.  So, fuck it. Everyone's full of shit.

 

Oh, and ZachJ is right... you should've bought a CZ.


  • HerpesDeluxe likes this

"You can give it the old spin."


#6 RDS

RDS

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 465 posts

Posted 08 January 2016 - 08:20 PM

Sounds like buying a shadow and doing base upgrades would be better?

How much did this cost you?

 

Whole Trigger Kit is 149.  Which is the Forward Reset, Comp Spring Set, Hard Sear + Trigger.  Basically what I have in it is:

 

https://store.apexta.../Details/191850 --$97 retail.

 

Anything is better.  I had a Glock with the "+"  trigger--it was horrible.  So simple to rectify.  Plus the sear block housing also was a big wtf. The fact that you can not get an original sear block housing that functions the same as your weapon is also a big minus.  Those less saavy tend to have issues.  As this is my "If I fuck it up, I have other guns to shoot" I tend to be a little more aggressive with my fixes.

 

Is there a reason you didn't put in the Apex Reset Assist Mechanism?  That solves the whole "no trigger reset" issue.   https://store.apexta.../Details/191847

 

Anyways, blah blah blah on Doodie, you either shoot a Tanfo, CZ, or Glock.  

 

XDs, M&Ps, Sigs, etc all get the "you're not in the cool kid club, go sit over there with the rest of the losers".  However, everyone agrees its not that gun that makes you shoot well.  So, fuck it. Everyone's full of shit.

 

Oh, and ZachJ is right... you should've bought a CZ.

 

Its in there.  It appears not to work with the standard trigger.

 

I went back and the reset is there--it is just the the travel is so far (overtravel and release) there there is effectively no reset, by the time the trigger resets it is all the way forward

 

My M&P predates competition--it was my first 9mm, I had 40s and 45s before.  I tried one at a CHL class where I was still being Beretta man (My son shoots that now) and it was very nice pointing, grip felt good.  As I've pushed it, I have discovered its limitations.  


Edited by RDS, 08 January 2016 - 08:29 PM.

It's not about winning, it's about emasculating your friends in front of their loved ones

 

 


#7 Conspiracy Brother

Conspiracy Brother

    Do not pass Go, do not collect 200 warning points.

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,628 posts
  • LocationBanned for something?

Posted 09 January 2016 - 12:42 PM

Go buy revolver. 

Get good at revolver. 

Save lots of time and money fussing over nonsense like trigger reset and take up on your other guns. 

 

 

In other words, man up, learn how to shoot.

Really shoot, not just "crutch guns". 



#8 thermobollocks

thermobollocks

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 376 posts

Posted 11 January 2016 - 08:44 AM

It's not just the overtravel stop that makes it not production legal, brotato.



#9 Suck It Trebek

Suck It Trebek

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 196 posts
  • LocationGeorgia

Posted 13 January 2016 - 01:45 PM

Gun stores need a sign that says

 

"if you want to shoot GSSF, buy a Glock

If you want to shoot USPSA production, buy a CZ or Tanfo

If you want to shoot IDPA, buy a vest"






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users