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HF's and Live Fire Practice


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#1 LeadChucker

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 07:59 AM

Recently I have been working on improving movement in my live fire practice and tried something new to get a better idea how things were working out. Forgive me if I am super late to the game and you all have been doing this all along, but....

Previously I had basically judged all of my practice drills on time, of course I looked at hits, but my real judging of a run was the time. A couple of weeks ago I decided to set-up a Practiscore stage on my phone and log all of the practice runs that day. It soon became clear to me that the only real way to judge a run was to check the HF. I was amazed at a slightly slower time with better hits had a much higher HF.

Bottom line is, if you are not utilizing HF for your live fire practice you are likely ignoring valuable data to help you improve. My match results in the ensuing 3 matches have been dramatically better. Amazingly my stage times relative to other shooters has been better too even tho I am not trying to go faster, but rather attempting to hit the balance needed to attain the highest HF.

Taking a little bit more time on sight picture has given me 502 A's, 1 B's and 68 C's combined in my last three matches, and yes, no D's or M's all the while somehow going faster.

So, in a nutshell, learn Hit Factoring inside and out for better results

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#2 Twinkie

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 08:19 AM

TL;DR:

Hits matter. Time matters. Do gooder by getting better hits in less time.

Good tip on setting up practice stages in Practiscore. My intuition says it will be more work than its worth bit maybe not? I always use negative score keeping, so on an 80 point course where I have 3C, I would lose 6 points giving me 74. Divide by time and get HF. Write down on paper and use cell phone for calculations. Practiscore sounds like more stuff to do.

Glad you are moving past raw time as your metric. I'm pretty guilty of obsessing over the timer as well.

#3 LeadChucker

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 08:25 AM

Good tip on setting up practice stages in Practiscore. My intuition says it will be more work than its worth bit maybe not?


Possibly, but here is how I did it.

All you have to do is edit your previous run by inputting the time and changing the hits. Most times the hits are fairly similar. Takes all of about 15 seconds to do. Of course I run more simple practice stages than you appear to use. Rarely are mine over 3 paper targets, and each target might be in a different "array" when I am only working on movement.

Hey, it was just something that is working for me to figure out the proper balance between speed and sight picture

#4 Twinkie

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 08:45 AM

Possibly, but here is how I did it.

All you have to do is edit your previous run by inputting the time and changing the hits. Most times the hits are fairly similar. Takes all of about 15 seconds to do. Of course I run more simple practice stages than you appear to use. Rarely are mine over 3 paper targets, and each target might be in a different "array" when I am only working on movement.

Hey, it was just something that is working for me to figure out the proper balance between speed and sight picture

 

I would think you would put in 10 "competitors" like Lead Chuker1, Lead Chucker2, etc. That way you don't have to edit but can just do every run on its own. Makes it easy to see just how (in)consistent you might be.



#5 LeadChucker

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 08:56 AM

I write down the results on a piece of paper after each run for comparison.

Your "negative" scoring is essentially the same thing.

#6 slemmo

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 08:58 AM

You don't really have to do all that though, just throw some targets out, make a quick stage and calculate HFs on you phone calc app if you don't want to pre-program some elaborate kind of training ordeal before you go to shoot.

Personally I never practice without calculating HF.

HF is the everything of what we do, we practice for shooting stages based on HF so HF should be on your mind always.



#7 slemmo

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 09:01 AM

oh....Twinkie wrote the exact same thing, well, then we are two with a good idea. I also calculate the same way, just subtract points and divide by time. Then try to shoot the stage faster or slower/more accurate and see how that plays out.

 

Another fun exercise is to try and guess what your first run hf is going to be once you have built a training stage, and then obviuously try to see what adjustments you could do to perform better.



#8 cousin eddie

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 09:28 AM

I've been doing the practiscore thing during my live fire for a year or so now. Once you have yourself listed on your device 10 times or more like stated above (name 01) (name 02) it makes it a little quicker to set up. You can also clone past "matches" if you plan to do some of the same drills as an earlier session.

It's nice having all of this data, but what I wish I had now was a way to electronically domument draw/split/transition/reload times efficiently for drills like accelerator and distance change up where you want to pay attention to those sort of things.

Maybe this dovetails into the shot timer wish list thread I saw somewhere. A shot timer with a touch screen that you can input your hits on target that also calculates HF, and creates a database of 50 or so runs of split times that can be uploaded to your computer in excel format for analysis and record keeping. Because who's got time for paper and pencil!

#9 Motosapiens

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 09:37 AM

I think this is a worthwhile experiment from time to time. I also think it's useful for me to have a couple drills (like a 15 yard el pres) that i do a few times a month at the beginning of a practice session and record the HF. In general tho, I don't really stress about HF in practice. I use Anderson's concept of speed mode (not judging accuracy, but still utilizing shotcalling), accuracy mode (not judging speed), and match mode (calling my shots and letting my subconscious mind take care of the details. Since I started doing that, both speed and accuracy have improved significantly, as has my consistency.

 

I know that going faster than I can see is disastrous.


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#10 aceinyerface

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 10:58 AM

Oh shit... a serious shooting thread! Let me jump up in this mutha fucka before I go check out the tits thread.

 

I am a few weeks into recording my runs on El Prez in an effort to crunch the data and find where I can make improvements. I put that shit on an Excel spreadsheet.

 

I DO calculate the hit factor and find out where it stands comparatively.

 

I can tell by reading the hit factors that if I shoot the splits the same as the transitions, about a .15-.25, then the hit factor goes down. I will occasionally hit all the misses in the A zone, but mostly I am just not seeing the sight picture I need to see for an accurate shot at that speed, yet.

 

I found that the hit factor goes up if I take .1 to .2 sec longer (especially on the draw and the reload) on transitions to be sure I am aiming at the A zone. It seems like it is very easy to pop a shot over the right shoulder of the target on the reload and off the paper to the left on the draw.

 

It seems like I don't pull off as bad on the transitions if I get that .1 extra second sight picture, meaning the hit factor is higher. Also, based upon the hit factors, I can see that the speed of the split has relatively no effect on the score. So against conventional wisdom, I am getting the first sight picture and then popping the second shot only getting a blur of the sights (I try to keep the blur in the A zone). 

 

The speed of the transition is affecting both the trans and the split score, it looks like if I line up the first shot, then the muzzle returns to that spot pretty well. If I don't line up the initial shot at the A, then the muzzle returns to the same bad spot, so a lower HF.

 

Take all of that with a grain of salt, I still suck and this is a work in progress.


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#11 peterthefish

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 11:25 AM

Shotmaxx Trainer is the app that I use for tracking HF during live fire. You setup individual drills (could be a stage), and then add drills to a training session. It will track reps over the training session. A little setup work, but quick and keeps me honest. If you have a Shotmaxx timer it imports the times so you can review / Reloads / Splits over time. 64733ae08f1ef5f46cfad14d4d8ef3b3.jpgb9f697d30806c6c9223e58b0ed5c500f.jpg
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#12 Motosapiens

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 11:32 AM

Nice humblebrag on the el pres hf's.


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#13 LeadChucker

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 11:56 AM

Shotmaxx Trainer is the app that I use for tracking HF during live fire. You setup individual drills (could be a stage), and then add drills to a training session. It will track reps over the training session. A little setup work, but quick and keeps me honest.

If you have a Shotmaxx timer it imports the times so you can review / Reloads / Splits over time.

64733ae08f1ef5f46cfad14d4d8ef3b3.jpgb9f697d30806c6c9223e58b0ed5c500f.jpg


I have a Shotmaxx, how the FUCK do you do that?

#14 LeadChucker

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 11:58 AM

Nice humblebrag on the el pres hf's.


Major PF and a huge ass magwell ;)

All kidding aside, nice runs!!!
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#15 Motosapiens

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 12:06 PM

Major PF and a huge ass magwell ;)

All kidding aside, nice runs!!!

I have pretty much the same scores in production as I do in ss minor or ss major. that probably means i'm not shooting fast enough.


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#16 Peally

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 12:11 PM

I have a Shotmaxx, how the FUCK do you do that?

 

You need to use bluetooth on your phone to sync the shotmaxx app with your timer. It's a little clunky in design and you have to pay for it but it will certainly do the above.



#17 peterthefish

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 12:45 PM

You need to use bluetooth on your phone to sync the shotmaxx app with your timer. It's a little clunky in design and you have to pay for it but it will certainly do the above.


The biggest pain is the Bluetooth on the watch times out pretty quick and takes a minute to re-pair. So I'll usually do 3 runs, scoring but not taping, before I tape.

Other than that I wouldn't say the interface is clunky as much as inelegant or unintuitive. But once you get it, it takes all of a minute to setup a practice session, add your drills to it, and start shooting. After each run, score the shots then hold the button that cycles through times down until it beeps and it sends the times to the phone. Bonus is my ADD ass is more likely to follow the practice plan if I enter the drills before I leave home.

Rinse, repeat.

#18 Peally

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 12:59 PM

I'd agree with that. It could be done better but it's not the worst thing on the planet to use. Biggest thing for me is remembering to charge the timer and phone since bluetooth tends to burn off power.



#19 Will

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 07:38 PM

I just started hf scoring and I take a video of the timer results, score the hits on an index card, tape, and enter the data in excel when I'm home. Clunky and low resolution but it works.

When I first read hf scoring in the MFCEO manifesto a year ago it didn't click, but now that I'm better with fundamentals it makes sense and is helping me figure how the speed and hits to get consistent results.

#20 ZackJones

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 08:08 PM

I don't own all of MFCEO's books but do all of them have drills that are suitable for HHF calculation? I idea being to create a PractiScore match for each book where each drill is a stage within that match.
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Not to be confused with ZachJ




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