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DNROI Term Limits


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#1 (Sh)ItJustGotReal

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 02:21 PM

What is the term limit for DNROI? Do they stay for as long as they want? How do they get the job? Are they voted in?

#2 Mike Foley

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 03:47 PM

They are a hired employee of the org.

Selected by majority vote of the board, and subject to termination only by the same.

Bylaw 16.4 details the DNROI position.

#3 Alfred Salveti

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 05:42 PM

What is the term limit for DNROI? Do they stay for as long as they want? How do they get the job? Are they voted in?

 

Just curious...or?


I like to rewatch election night 2016 coverage and I want to marry a conservative black girl who likes to shoot.

#4 (Sh)ItJustGotReal

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 07:55 PM

Just curious...or?

 

Just curious.  I think we need a new DNROI.



#5 Alfred Salveti

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 08:24 PM

Just curious.  I think we need a new DNROI.

 

Why?


I like to rewatch election night 2016 coverage and I want to marry a conservative black girl who likes to shoot.

#6 peterthefish

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 09:40 PM

Why?

This. What's wrong with just making shit up as you go along, shoehorning your pre-determined decisions into the Rulebook.
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#7 ToddKS

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 10:03 PM

I still can't find my iliac crest or bisect it. I will just have to shoot limited or open.

#8 Just Some Random Hoser

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 10:09 PM

I still can't find my iliac crest or bisect it. I will just have to shoot limited or open.


Isn't it against good practice or just common sense or something to use words that 90% of the organization don't know what they mean.....jeez....pretty soon we'll be talking like goddamn lawyers or doctors; and then nobody will have any fun!

#9 (Sh)ItJustGotReal

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 10:46 PM

This. What's wrong with just making shit up as you go along, shoehorning your pre-determined decisions into the Rulebook.


Exactly.

And if not a new DNROI, I would at least like to see decisions being made as a consensus among a panel of RMI's. Having one guy, with no common sense or logic making rules decisions is stupid.
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#10 Mike Foley

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 10:51 PM

That started over 30 years ago, dudes were arguing about similar stuff when I got here. I didn't care, I just wanted to shoot. People bitched about the old DNROI rulings too, those guys have a tough job. They keep us safe, train the ROs, approve stages for matches, make rulings on things we don't have rules for, approve guns for Production, help setup our nationals, and constantly have rules discussions, and anything else we task them with. We may not always agree with them, or like the process, but at the end of the day they put in the time and do the work the rest of us don't want to do. People want leadership to openly talk with them on forums, but then make them not want to talk at all. I can't see where anyone changed a rule, the rule book hasn't changed. How important is this? Is it just the principle? Is Troy being punished for an honest, but confusing exchange? What is the real issue? I hear people are all worked up, yet I don't understand the issue? How can we help? Seriously. Legitimate complaints and questions are part of the job. I honestly want to know, I'm sure Troy does too. He's put 30 years into this path, most as a volunteer. Let's work this out.
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#11 Mike Foley

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 10:52 PM

The RMIs and BOD get a lot of emails from Troy, ask me how I know! He's not freelancing, unless it's an easy ask.

#12 Mike Foley

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 10:54 PM

Oh and I'm going to bed, it's midnight, on a Saturday, I'll try to check back in tomorrow.

#13 Alfred Salveti

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 11:37 PM

Is this all still about the lilac crest thing.....or something else?


I like to rewatch election night 2016 coverage and I want to marry a conservative black girl who likes to shoot.

#14 bailey

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Posted 13 March 2016 - 04:13 AM

I still can't find my iliac crest or bisect it. I will just have to shoot limited or open.

 

 

Isn't it against good practice or just common sense or something to use words that 90% of the organization don't know what they mean.....jeez....pretty soon we'll be talking like goddamn lawyers or doctors; and then nobody will have any fun!

 

So are y'all making a public admission of being stupid or what ? Maybe you are just causing trouble. If you don't know what something is you look it up. What's the source of your data that 90% of the readers are stupid?

 

There is some useful psychology here. A few people believe they know everything and thus anything foreign to them is unknown to everyone. Get over it!



#15 bailey

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Posted 13 March 2016 - 05:02 AM

After my immediately previous smart-ass post I got to thinking.

 

It seems to me that we have a pres who has accomplished miracles in 2 and a half months, a BOD that is cooperating and bringing a very good spirit to the organization, and a start on personnel issues that have been smelling for a while. I think that summary is hard to dispute.

 

There has been a continuing dispute about CO and a new one about PCC. I do not understand those. Any organization that refuses to keep up with changes is destined to die a slow death. If we do not do either of those divisions someone else will. Most new orgs will fail, but only one has to succeed to suddenly render the old, staid group stale and useless. 

 

For the life of me I do not see how adding new shooting opportunities is negative to anyone who does not want to participate in them. What is the threat?

 

On the hipbone thing again. First, I cannot imagine how anyone could have ever have interpreted the line to be from the spine to the hipbone. That is bizarre to me. There is no mention of a spine. Second, it really does not matter much. Whether you use the spine or the line across the hip bones, the placement of holster/mags does not change a half inch. If a half inch is a negative on your shooting, you have many more problems than the rules. You can't even place the equipment that precisely from time to time.

 

So what is it? I think it's a desire to disrupt, to bitch, to stand around and do nothing and point fingers at people who work at this to make it good for all of us. I guess my opinion is get on the bus or go away. If you want to bomb the bus you're just a pain in the ass. Sorry for my opinion. I'm just tired of bitching.


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#16 peterthefish

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Posted 13 March 2016 - 06:56 AM

I'll go on the record as saying I don't give a fuck about production and Iliac Crestgate. It's shit like making an interpretation of a rule, but pretending it's not an interpretation to avoid the accompanying process, that pisses me off. Especially since Production is such a popular division (second only to limited, which rules).

There have been some other things that have come up that piss me off, again where he has seemed to come up with a tortured interpretation of the rules to support a position that frankly the rules don't.

IMO the first and foremost rules authority in the sport should understand how to put together a logically supported position based on the rules as written and past interpretations. I don't think that's there.

I'm sure it's also a thankless job and all that, so take it for what it's worth.
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#17 bailey

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Posted 13 March 2016 - 07:41 AM

I'll go on the record as saying I don't give a fuck about production and Iliac Crestgate. It's shit like making an interpretation of a rule, but pretending it's not an interpretation to avoid the accompanying process, that pisses me off. Especially since Production is such a popular division (second only to limited, which rules). Not giving a "fuck" about one of our divisions is emblematic of your attitude. You just want to be obnoxious.

There have been some other things that have come up that piss me off, again where he has seemed to come up with a tortured interpretation of the rules to support a position that frankly the rules don't. What other things?

IMO the first and foremost rules authority in the sport should understand how to put together a logically supported position based on the rules as written and past interpretations. I don't think that's there.​ Looks to me like they did a great job of attempting to explain the rule to people who can't read at the third grade level.

I'm sure it's also a thankless job and all that, so take it for what it's worth. It doesn't have to be a thankless job. The fact that know-nothings can just complain on the internet and do nothing else makes most things thankless these days. I don't think our past president did a very thorough job, but you can't find anywhere that I criticized him...because I did not. He was president. I was and am a bystander that just enjoys shooting. The DNROI job requires technical skills and interests that exceed the knowledge of nearly anyone. We should be glad someone is willing to do it. The Pres and BOD jobs require political and technical skills beyond what most of us have. You should be glad that some good people are willing to do those jobs on out behalf.

 

I'm not a nice person and I don't play one on TV. I just think your complaints might be taken seriously if you were rational.



#18 ToddKS

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Posted 13 March 2016 - 08:32 AM



I can't see where anyone changed a rule, the rule book hasn't changed.

What is the real issue? I hear people are all worked up, yet I don't understand the issue? How can we help? Seriously.


The first part is what I believe is fueling the fire. You are technically correct. The rule hasn't changed on the books. Reality, however, is that now I may have an RO demand that I relocate gear on my belt from where it has always been because someone drew a picture on facebook.

I understand that the word of law hasn't changed but it is also seems that under this interpretation I now need to move my mags back one full spot from where they have always been on my belt to comply with the new Facebook picture.

Given that the word of law is unchanged there are limited possible options. Either my current mag position was always illegal (as was the mag position of many other shooters) and every RO missed it or the rule has effectively changed (even though the written rulebook hasn't). The only other option I can think of is that we all misunderstood the picture and nothing changes.

I would respectfully like to see some feedback from this perspective rather the hearing "the rulebook hasn't changed" over and over.



#19 Mike Foley

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Posted 13 March 2016 - 09:06 AM

I'll see what we can do to clarify this without making it worse.
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#20 peterthefish

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Posted 13 March 2016 - 09:44 AM


I'll go on the record as saying I don't give a fuck about production and Iliac Crestgate. It's shit like making an interpretation of a rule, but pretending it's not an interpretation to avoid the accompanying process, that pisses me off. Especially since Production is such a popular division (second only to limited, which rules). Not giving a "fuck" about one of our divisions is emblematic of your attitude. You just want to be obnoxious.

There have been some other things that have come up that piss me off, again where he has seemed to come up with a tortured interpretation of the rules to support a position that frankly the rules don't. What other things?

IMO the first and foremost rules authority in the sport should understand how to put together a logically supported position based on the rules as written and past interpretations. I don't think that's there.​ Looks to me like they did a great job of attempting to explain the rule to people who can't read at the third grade level.

I'm sure it's also a thankless job and all that, so take it for what it's worth. It doesn't have to be a thankless job. The fact that know-nothings can just complain on the internet and do nothing else makes most things thankless these days. I don't think our past president did a very thorough job, but you can't find anywhere that I criticized him...because I did not. He was president. I was and am a bystander that just enjoys shooting. The DNROI job requires technical skills and interests that exceed the knowledge of nearly anyone. We should be glad someone is willing to do it. The Pres and BOD jobs require political and technical skills beyond what most of us have. You should be glad that some good people are willing to do those jobs on out behalf.

I'm not a nice person and I don't play one on TV. I just think your complaints might be taken seriously if you were rational.

Not seeming obnoxious to some random on the Internet is low on my list of priorities. I have no problem with how they explained the production rule. I do have a problem with the fact that it's clearly an interpretation of that rule (one of two that I could agree with) by the final say when it comes to rules, and it should be treated and published as such.

I have a problem with the fact that changes to rules (357 SIG) weren't timely added to the Rulebook. I'm not going to go into specific examples of dumb interpretations to get you off my nuts.

I've served on boards of non-profits, professional associations, and even HOAs in the past. Calling people who disagree with you "know nothings" with nothing to base that in is almost as dumb as production. It's almost as dumb as saying you never "criticized [Strader]...because I [...] was and am a bystander that just enjoys shooting."

If you want to be a bystander go sit on the fucking sidelines and get Troy's dick out of your mouth.




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