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Getting a high grip but not centered


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#1 &-&

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 06:10 AM

In my attempt to get better I have started to take practice a bit more serious.  During dry fire practice I have noticed that when I try to go faster I am still getting a high grip but I am not centered during presentation.  The sight picture I get is rear sight and the front sight is off to the left, kind of like the pic below but more to the left.  When I get it right I see the front sight clearly, more or less centered, and the rear is blurry.  This could be why at a match my first shot goes left at times which up until now I though was me jerking the trigger (might be both).  It also means that I am breaking the shot without a good sight picture as my focus is speed when it should be speed and accuracy.  Obviously I am not practicing enough and need to prioritize more time and dry fire more often.  

 

School me so I do not to pick up any new training scars and to learn from others experiences.  

 

  • What dry fire drills would assist in resolving the issue?  
  • I am a retired motorcycle racer and as such my default setting is to go as fast as I can.  Any tips to tuning in more accuracy as a focus?
  • Should I invest in a SIRT as I am a dumb Glock shooter and like throwing money at problems?
  • I know I know, Glocks are dumb, buy a Tangfolio and all this shit goes away.

 

DSCF1446_thumb1.jpg?imgmax=800



#2 GuanoLoco

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 06:39 AM

If you don't learn to hit a good grip everything else will suck.

Learn to get a good grip and have the sights show up in alignment where your eyes are looking. I find a bunch of brightly colored 1" round target pasters to be helpful for this but most anything would work.
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#3 &-&

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 07:25 AM

If you don't learn to hit a good grip everything else will suck.

Learn to get a good grip and have the sights show up in alignment where your eyes are looking. I find a bunch of brightly colored 1" round target pasters to be helpful for this but most anything would work.

 

Gotcha, less time on full size targets.   

 

What are your thoughts on the Dot Torture drill?  Worth it?



#4 Jay870

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 07:33 AM

Partial reps at full speed to figure out where your shit is breaking down. For me the first partial ends with the strong hand with a full grip on the holstered gun and support hand at the index point. Once that is consistent the next set of reps ends at the point the support hand meets the gun. Once that is consistent then move on to full draws. 
 
Generally if I am inconsistent at the holster its because I'm tensing/hunching my shoulders during the stroke. If I'm inconsistent getting the support hand on the gun its because I am not getting the support hand to the right spot, or not getting it there fast enough. If those two things are good and I still have misaligned sights at the end of the presentation then its usually because I either started building grip pressure too early in the stroke (which makes everything hitchy) or too late (which makes the sights bounce or wag at the end).

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#5 Peally

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 07:41 AM

Agreed with Jay. Tension and missed indexes are what kill my draws.


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#6 &-&

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 07:43 AM

 

Partial reps at full speed to figure out where your shit is breaking down. For me the first partial ends with the strong hand with a full grip on the holstered gun and support hand at the index point. Once that is consistent the next set of reps ends at the point the support hand meets the gun. Once that is consistent then move on to full draws. 
 
Generally if I am inconsistent at the holster its because I'm tensing/hunching my shoulders during the stroke. If I'm inconsistent getting the support hand on the gun its because I am not getting the support hand to the right spot, or not getting it there fast enough. If those two things are good and I still have misaligned sights at the end of the presentation then its usually because I either started building grip pressure too early in the stroke (which makes everything hitchy) or too late (which makes the sights bounce or wag at the end).

 

 

 

You just threw a switch.  The tensing/hunching is something I may be doing.  I will break down my draw to core steps and see what I find, then tune.  Thank you



#7 GuanoLoco

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 08:26 AM

Gotcha, less time on full size targets.   
 
What are your thoughts on the Dot Torture drill?  Worth it?


Regular Dot Drill is rather illuminating and humbling.
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#8 &-&

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 09:04 AM

Regular Dot Drill is rather illuminating and humbling.

 

This?

 

http://benstoeger.co...ory/90-the-dots



#9 Stubb

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 09:19 AM

You just threw a switch.  The tensing/hunching is something I may be doing.  I will break down my draw to core steps and see what I find, then tune.  Thank you

 

Shake out your arms and flex your fingers to release tension. Take a couple deep breaths. When the buzzer sounds, casually grab your gat and start shooting.

 

Getting your weak hand across your belly quickly to wrap around your strong hand is one place where people give up a lot of time on the draw.


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#10 GuanoLoco

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 01:22 PM

This?

http://benstoeger.co...ory/90-the-dots

Yes. You might want to start at 3 yards, 5 yards, and/or reduce the number of shots. Otherwise you will cry or rage quit.
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#11 Maxamundo

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 01:52 PM

You need to figure this out in dry fire. I've struggled with this exactly problem through many grip changes and I've found a process that I'm pretty happy with for now.

 

First, do "blind draws" (draw with eyes close) with your normal grip. Open your eyes and notice where the front sight is. The reason for doing it with eyes closed is because this will help you understand your true index. If you look at the gun as you draw, you'll have the tendency to put a slight effort to align the sights as you complete the draw, which you don't want to have to do.

 

You'll likely find that you're way off, or a little off, or whatever. In order to adjust how the front sight indexes when you do a blind draw, you're going to have to adjust how much your fingers wrap around the grip with each hand. I like to use the trigger guard as an index for understanding where my fingers need to be. For example, does your right hand need to hook very far around so that your first knuckles point directly along the line of the trigger guard? Or maybe not as much so it lines up in between your first and second knuckles? Keep doing this and making adjustments until you start drawing blind and suddenly you open your eyes and the fiber is right where it needs to be.

 

Now drill those hand positions into your muscle memory. This is going to be done by slowing down the sections of the draw where each hand initiates contact with the gun. Make sure you have the correct "feel" when grabbing with your strong hand, and also find the correct feel when adding your weak hand. Then speed it up and make sure you're still hitting the right hand positions.

 

As a supplement, I'd suggest "testing" your new grip by practicing wide transitions (at least 90 degrees) in dry fire. Establish your grip and aim at one target, then transition as fast as you can using target focus to the second target. Did your sights stay perfectly aligned even though you swung your hands very fast to the other target? Go back and forth a lot so you look like a retard swinging a gun around. Make sure your grip keeps the sight in the notch even when you transition violently.

 

Unfortunately it's not as simple as that, because things change once you actually introduce recoil. Now that you have the "feel" of hand position in the grip, you need to get the feel for what pressure to use with each hand. I'd suggest doing this by firing single shots at a target and really paying attention to how your sight tracks. Adjust your grip, especially forward/downward torque with your weak hand until the sight returns exactly flat and doesn't dip too far or stay a little too high. Also play with inward pressure applied by the palms of your hands (think about crushing the top of your grip in between your palms). Bill drills are a good supplement to make sure your sight tracks consistently.

 

Once you've played around with grip pressure, you need to again make that exact grip pressure natural when you draw the gun. 

 

It's a lot of work but by doing all this stuff in dry fire and practice you'll take so much effort out of the actual shooting because your muscle memory will be working for you instead of against you.

 

 

 

 

Edit: Why would you buy a SIRT when you have the best practice tool available already (hint: it's your actual glock).


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#12 Will

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 06:21 PM

^this

Solid free advice right there...

If your sights are skewed left or right, your grip and index need to be fixed.

#13 &-&

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 07:19 PM

Brief practice notes:

 

  • Kept loose and tried to keep tension at bay.  This felt slower but was smoother and as a result faster.  Light bulb moment number 1
  • Tried the blind draw.  My first few were off to the left, after that they settled in to center.  I noticed that when my eyes were closed I felt where the belly of my thumb was hitting the grip.  If it went too far in, my natural point of aim went left, If I hit it just inside the back strap my point of aim was centered.  Light bulb moment number 2
  • Learning the above I took the crawl, walk, and tomorrow at the range jog/run approach.  I worked on partial draws focusing on initial hand placement and getting my support hand in place.  This helped me a ton but I need more reps so this becomes subconscious.
  • I will work on the above and dot drills tomorrow at the range.

 

I am still digesting all the great info 



#14 aceinyerface

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 12:46 PM

Pull out Ben's new book, look at the draw section, see where there are 3 pictures in a row (I don't have the page number). Look at the middle picture, this is the part you are doing wrong.

 

I know because this is the part that I am doing wrong. 

 

And, saying "training scar" will make your pecker shrink and your reloads suck.


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#15 Sad Sack

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 03:45 PM

In my attempt to get better I have started to take practice a bit more serious...

 

DSCF1446_thumb1.jpg?imgmax=800

 

To address your problem: I recommend that you try getting a high grip and centering it up more.

 

 

Also, you should obtain a gun with a striker/firing pin, extractor, and ejector as soon as possible.  Whoever sold you the "Glock" in your picture broke it off in your ass big time.  It almost looks like one of the guns that fucker Barry at FRC sent me after a 6 year wait.


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#16 &-&

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 05:02 PM

Pull out Ben's new book, look at the draw section, see where there are 3 pictures in a row (I don't have the page number). Look at the middle picture, this is the part you are doing wrong.

 

I know because this is the part that I am doing wrong. 

 

And, saying "training scar" will make your pecker shrink and your reloads suck.

 

Book is on order from Amazon, thanks for the tip.

 

To address your problem: I recommend that you try getting a high grip and centering it up more.

 

 

Also, you should obtain a gun with a striker/firing pin, extractor, and ejector as soon as possible.  Whoever sold you the "Glock" in your picture broke it off in your ass big time.  It almost looks like one of the guns that fucker Barry at FRC sent me after a 6 year wait.

 

Wait, that's not the new FBI speshul edition Glock?  

 

I am working on the grip a ton using a lot of the guidance in this post.  I hit the range today and while I have made great strides already there is more striding to do to get this burned in to my pea brain.



#17 snark

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 07:29 PM

Get some new sights.  Buying gear is way easier than practicing, and those do suck mightily.


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#18 &-&

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 06:49 AM

So that is not my picture, I just used it as an example of what I was seeing. I installed dawson fibers almost immediately because throwing money at problems is my thing!

#19 &-&

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 06:14 PM

So I have been following the advice in this thread and read the first 30 pages of Ben's new book.  I can only absorb so much at a time, then I have to practice it, I will read more when I have freed up some brain cells.  I have improved my grip from the holster to first sight picture quite a bit.  Practice at the indoor range shows improvement too.  I will be shooting at a local match at West Shore Practical Shooters in PA on the 16th and then the following weekend at Thurmont, MD.  Lets see if I can put a good match or two together.

 

Thanks again for the schooling



#20 Peally

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 06:21 PM

Take it in chunks. I'll read a whole book just for an overview, highlighting as I go, then forever reference back to it as needed. Everything matters at once but you can only drill down and focus on so many bits in one sitting. If you have an active mind as you practice it'll come in time.


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