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Is it cheating to accept a time you know is wrong?


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#21 Sweet T

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 08:39 PM

WTF, they changed the scores after the arbitration period?

Negative, this was before arb started.

#22 Roons

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 08:50 PM

Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else is looking. 

 

You have more integrity than most, including the hypothetical pro shooter... 


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"You can give it the old spin."


#23 Ben

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 08:53 PM

Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else is looking. 

 

You have more integrity than most, including the hypothetical pro shooter... 

This isn't a hypothetical



#24 Alfred Salveti

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 09:01 PM

Negative, this was before arb started.

 

Pretty sure the score should have stood as is.  It isn't right because that's not what the score was but it is better than a zero; because he didn't deserve that either.  Too bad he couldn't have re-shot.


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#25 Alfred Salveti

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 09:02 PM

This isn't a hypothetical

 

Oh really?


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#26 Sweet T

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 09:10 PM

Pretty sure the score should have stood as is. It isn't right because that's not what the score was but it is better than a zero; because he didn't deserve that either. Too bad he couldn't have re-shot.

The was no basis to reshoot due to video evidence being inadmissible, even had he still been at the range.



#27 RDS

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 09:35 PM

So at the columbia cascade sectional last week, I was shooting with a friend and rival in the same division, and after the 3-hit-per-target stage I was feeling pretty good based on the time and hit factor I saw. But then I compared notes with a master on our squad, and it seemed unlikely that my time was correct. I checked the video, and it was clear that my last shots had not been recorded by the timer. Since I want to be able to look myself in the eye without disgust, I brought it to the attention of the RO's, and reshot the stage. It didn't go perfectly, but it was similar to the score I should have gotten the first time, and it was the actual score I earned. 

 

Would I have been a cheating douchebag if I had just said 'The RO and I signed the scoresheet, so that's the score' ? Would it be different if I were a big name pro sponsored by a big gun company like Sig or Kel-tec or RIA ?

 

I felt like I made the ONLY decision I could live with, but now I'm starting to wonder if that is how big time famous shooters work. I'm pretty sure Nick Yanutola(sp) would do the honorable thing, but he's just a golfer, not a famous shooter.

Yeah its cheating.  Who cares what the big names would do. 

 

Always +2 your next 5 scores for either needing to asking or fluffing yourself by posting "oh look at how honest I am"

 

Being a douchebag is separate.  I'm a douchebag.  But an honest one.


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It's not about winning, it's about emasculating your friends in front of their loved ones

 

 


#28 Motosapiens

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 09:40 PM

What is unfortunate is that video evidence can't be used to cause a re-shot.  

 

And it's also unfortunate if the issue is discovered after the arbitration period because then nothing can be done.  The scores are final.  Nobody want's to win or lose because the RO wasn't doing their job.

 

True, but video evidence can cause a shooter who is honest and not a douchebag to request a re-shoot.


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#29 Motosapiens

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 09:43 PM

I feel like this thread is a shot at Max... but then again I could be paranoid.

who is max? I don't think anyone named max shot the columbia-cascade sectional (which is a really nice match btw, and they even have cheese in oregon in case you get homesick). I was just asking about a situation that came up with me at a sectional match, coincidentally on the same weekend when you were shooting nationals with other competitors, some of whom may or may not be ethical.


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#30 TrannyOakley

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 09:43 PM

Sounds to me like your mind was made up that it was cheating before you started this thread so what the hell are you asking us for? This is just some humble brag, "look how honest I am!" bullshit. Just do the right thing and let that be it's own reward. But bragging about it is lame.

As for me, if there was a way to trick the timer into not hearing my finals shots on a stage, I'd do it. Not all the time, just if I was close enough that it would bump me into 1st place.

 

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#31 Motosapiens

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 09:45 PM

Someone I know at 2014 production nats shot a stage and was the stage winner. 

He's a nice guy too. Little reckless, but all in, and fun to watch. Last I saw him he was shooting a pm9 in SS minor. Many of us were talking about that stage at that match.


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#32 Motosapiens

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 09:48 PM

Phil?

Seriously though, Strader got +7'd at Area 7. I think he was able to pull a "I'm Phil Strader - check the timer, there was a 7 second gap between my last two splits". Not sure if it was before or after score sheets were signed.

I guess what I'm saying is, if it's good enough for El Pres Emeritus it's good enough for a C Class scrub.

 

In another odd coincidence, at one of the first major matches I worked, we had several shooters on a squad get +7 'd, including DSA. Once we figured out the timer RO was doing something screwy during ULSC we ended up giving a couple reshoots, but I had to stamp my feet and cry like a little girl to make it happen. The timer RO was like "he signed the scoresheet" and I was like "but we KNOW it is wrong, and only douchebags give (or take) a score they know is wrong".


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#33 Motosapiens

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 09:50 PM

Sounds to me like your mind was made up that it was cheating before you started this thread so what the hell are you asking us for? This is just some humble brag, "look how honest I am!" bullshit. Just do the right thing and let that be it's own reward. But bragging about it is lame.

 

You think this thread is about me?. Are you paying attention?


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#34 Larry Costa

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 10:37 PM

I think if you tell on yourself you should get extra points.  Like it's a bonus if the RO screws up and you catch it.

 

I think if you didn't know the time was wrong until later and after the arbitration and the scores are final.  The whole match should be re-shot.

 

If not everyone is available to drive back and re-shoot the match will be zeroed.


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#35 Larry Costa

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 10:44 PM

 I was feeling pretty good based on the time and hit factor I saw. 

 

So after the stage you signed the score sheet....got it.

 

But then I compared notes with a master on our squad, and it seemed unlikely that my time was correct. 

 

So now you're thinking you weren't as good as you thought you were.  But you're like B class right so you are capable of amazing runs at least sometimes.  You just didn't know....  You were unsure.

 

I checked the video

 

That's cool.  You relied on undeniable video evidence.  Used by the NFL, Major League Baseball, the NBA, etc, etc....

 

 

 it was clear that my last shots had not been recorded by the timer. 

 

Oh, how honorable of you.  You had a feeling, checked with a M class shooter THEN watched the undeniable video proof that you weren't as good as you thought you were.  How great you did the right thing..... Did you have a choice with your M class squadmate next to you, your buddy you were trying to beat.  It's not like you figured this out all by yourself all alone or anything and just came forward.  You went checking others scores, talked to people, watched the video.  Really, you didn't have a choice.  You couldn't have hid even if you wanted too.  This doesn't say anything about your character.  In fact, it shows you have less character because you are trying to drag someone through the mud with rumor an innuendo while trying to make yourself out to be some kind of saint.  

 

Unless you can say Max had all the benefit you did and didn't do anything to make it right, you should shut your cock sucker.

 

So,

 

Put up or shut up.


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#36 jayohee

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 12:24 AM

Sounds to me like your mind was made up that it was cheating before you started this thread so what the hell are you asking us for? This is just some humble brag, "look how honest I am!" bullshit. Just do the right thing and let that be it's own reward. But bragging about it is lame.

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Yup

#37 jayohee

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 12:28 AM

So after the stage you signed the score sheet....got it.


So now you're thinking you weren't as good as you thought you were. But you're like B class right so you are capable of amazing runs at least sometimes. You just didn't know.... You were unsure.


That's cool. You relied on undeniable video evidence. Used by the NFL, Major League Baseball, the NBA, etc, etc....



Oh, how honorable of you. You had a feeling, checked with a M class shooter THEN watched the undeniable video proof that you weren't as good as you thought you were. How great you did the right thing..... Did you have a choice with your M class squadmate next to you, your buddy you were trying to beat. It's not like you figured this out all by yourself all alone or anything and just came forward. You went checking others scores, talked to people, watched the video. Really, you didn't have a choice. You couldn't have hid even if you wanted too. This doesn't say anything about your character. In fact, it shows you have less character because you are trying to drag someone through the mud with rumor an innuendo while trying to make yourself out to be some kind of saint.

Unless you can say Max had all the benefit you did and didn't do anything to make it right, you should shut your cock sucker.

So,

Put up or shut up.


You can time Max's video and see that it's off. Same with Nick's, although his was waaaay fucking off - and in the wrong direction

#38 teenlaqueefah

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 12:42 AM

Honesty will get you killed in the streets.
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#39 Sweet T

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 06:45 AM

He's a nice guy too. Little reckless, but all in, and fun to watch. Last I saw him he was shooting a pm9 in SS minor. Many of us were talking about that stage at that match.

We're definitely not taking about the same guy.

#40 LeadChucker

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 07:10 AM

Real names, match and dates please.

This "my friend wants to know" stuff is for fucking 2nd grade.

One of the reasons I have grown to HATE lots of pro sports is the blatant cheating involved, to the point that many are unwatchable. Yeah I was a golfer, and we called penalties on ourselves. The theory was, would you reach into a fellow pros wallet and take money out of it? Because cheating is the same fucking thing, whether you are stealing prize money or stage points, it is the same.
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