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USPSA vs IPSC cage match


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#21 GooldMember

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 09:57 AM

Any time you read "region", replace that with "country".

USPSA is the organization and region/country for IPSC in the US. USPSA also runs and owns Steel Challenge. Steel Challenge would certainly be " a shooting match of any type or format".

Perfect. So we quit IPSC, tell them idiots to take a hike, and then never let them shoot steel challenge again since own that.

Fuck off losers, we are taking our ball AND our steel.


But shooting white would probably be nice, like Ben said white targets probably have great contrast.
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#22 jimbob

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 09:58 AM

Why didn't Phil think of this? Imagine the large quantity of bouquets of flowers he could have bought with that 100k!

 

>Phil think of this?

>Phil

>think

 

those in same sentence.


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#23 snark

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 10:00 AM

They will probably ban us from using the turtle target. 

 

Woe is us.


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Use the rules. Don't DQ someone who doesn't do anything DQable. -- Da Beard.

 


#24 Peally

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 10:10 AM

We'll just steal 3GN's square target.



#25 Trigger Warning

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 10:11 AM

"It is rumored that IPSC will start their own IPSC Region in the US, should USPSA no longer be affiliated with IPSC.  I do not oppose this idea, in fact, I welcome it.  It would give athletes the ability to choose the sport that is right for them, and create more opportunities for international competition."

 

So if we do not render unto them and grovel under heel, they plan to sail the Atlantic and set up their own matches in our towns, farms, schoolyards, and churches?  This is tyranny! 

 

Give me liberty or give me DQ!  I have not yet begun to sight!  They can have my metric target when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!  God bless the good old USPS of A!

 

The last time the euros tried a Level IV match in America it was at Yorktown and if I remember correctly Cornwallis DNF’ed and all the Hessians had to give their jerseys back to Sig.

 

Let me put it in scientific terms:  Mass x Velocity = AMERICA!


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On injured reserve.


#26 Ben

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 10:19 AM

Posted to FB by Leighton A Oosthuisen


 

"For my friends that are shooters, looks like USPSA is breaking away from IPSC. 

 

Just as I was saying last week in Florida. 


(So much for those that told me I was overreacting)

 

 

There are so many emotions I feel right now. Most are not good.

I am one of the 60 that will be affected. As someone hoping to be on Team USA 2017 and represent my country, this will almost certainly result in us not going to France.

 

Mike Foley came to me on Saturday last week (just before the Limited Nationals) and gave me a brief synopsis on the IPSC Hungary vote the day before.

 

I contacted Vince Pinto (who is one of the three IPSC officials mentioned). Various conversations occurred revealing that iPSC intended to sanction the USPSA over the match the uspsa sanctioned in the Philippines this year. This match was hosted by a group of shooters that wanted to have an event NOT sanctioned by iPSC Philippines Regional Director Jack.

 

IPSC reacted by having the vote mentioned above. This could mean we could plan, pay and travel to France for the World Championships in August 2017, and then be expelled the day before it started. Potentially having our guns confiscated etc. for not having an "official" status.

 

First, I think this is totally ridiculous. On both sides.


Second, the USPSA Board of Directors voted on this in JANUARY 2016, yet we are being informed of the full implications in October 2016. 


Third, I personally feel the membership of uspsa should have consulted before the President of USPSA triggered events that would result in the expulsion from IPSC. 


(Although it's possible the membership may have gone along with it anyway)


Fourth, if this was on the cards in January why did we all spend the money and time qualifying for the event.

 

Yes, there are less than 100 people affected by this. But does that justify the actions?

 

And yes, IPSC does not have the right to dictate how uspsa runs their organizations, or where they hold USPSA competitions. I would personally love to shoot an event in the Philippines.

Based on conversations I have had with Vince and Mike, both sides are dug in. So it appears the split is inevitable. And Team USA will not be representing in France.

There is a rumor a competing group in the USA will establish a USA IPSC, which based on their membership numbers will be allocated the slots originally offered to
USPSA. A membership of 2,000 is 60 slots.

 

Personally, I would join them, but does that jeopardize my participation in USPSA events? Would IPSC approve?

By the way during the 2017 season I have had many many conversations about the World Shoot with many officials. Not once did anyone mention this situation. 
I have been in contact with friends in other countries and no one knew that there were actions being taken that would result in the expulsion of the USA. When I raised the issue on social media last week I was accused by IPSC of sensationalism. Clearly people didn't want the real story to come out. 


One country that voted for this IPSC measure did not know it was directed at expelling the USA. 
And BOD members here in the USA were aware of this yet said nothing to the members.

It has been pointed out to me that had I paid more attention to Board minutes, I would have been aware of this. Ironically, the identical statement was made to me by both IPSC and USPSA. Ok, I will accept that. I wish It had been posted on social Media.

 

One the aspects of this I'm really unhappy about is the "secrecy" under which this has all taken place. I feel the memberships should have been notified before actions were undertaken that would result in draconian measures.

 

So it appears uspsa is going its own way


And IPSC doesn't seem to care.

 

And unless you are one of the 100 or so shooters affected probably no one else cares.

 

Personally speaking, representing the United States is the highlight of my shooting life.

 

A World Championships without the USA is kind of a joke. But maybe that's just me.

 

Hopefully sponsors will get involved and let everyone know this is not a good situation

 

This is truly a sad day in practical Pistol."

 

 



#27 aceinyerface

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 10:20 AM

I'm trying to think of a reason we need to remain in IPSC. I'm not seeing a problem with kicking them to the curb.

 

The half dozen ballers can still sign up for the nouveau-IPSC-US and compete internationally.

 

USPSA can go their merry way.

 

Everyone is happy.


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#28 Flexmoney

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 10:32 AM

This just in...  the first ever USPSA Best Shooter on Earth match to be held in 2018,  also known as the shorts and sandals shooting extravaganza!

 

All USPSA member nations welcome.


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Unless otherwise noted, expect that all my posting here is in true Doodie fashion.  If my post somehow upsets your sensibilities, well...there ya go.  


#29 Miculek is a Noob

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 10:39 AM

Posted to FB by Leighton A Oosthuisen

This is truly a sad day in practical Pistol."
 

 

Uh no. It's Monday. No one much gives a flying shit about whether or not you get an expense-paid trip to Europe.


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#30 aceinyerface

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 10:39 AM

This just in...  the first ever USPSA Best Shooter on Earth match to be held in 2018,  also known as the shorts and sandals shooting extravaganza!

 

All USPSA member nations welcome.

 

Interesting...

 

So the big concern is the "World Championship". Who controls it?

 

Well, it isn't a World Championship if a large part of the World isn't participating. There would have to be a stand alone match open to all shooters for it to be a true "World" championship.

 

I'm oddly good with that.



#31 Buck Turgidson

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 10:40 AM

Posted to FB by Leighton A Oosthuisen


 

 

The butthurt is strong with this one

 

No fucks given


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#32 Peally

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 10:40 AM

With respect, it sounds like Mr. Oosthuisen should have paid attention to the board minutes versus waiting for a Facebook post. AFAIK this has been a boiling issue for a long time.



#33 WJM

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 10:41 AM

I'm trying to think of a reason we need to remain in IPSC. I'm not seeing a problem with kicking them to the curb.

 

The half dozen ballers can still sign up for the nouveau-IPSC-US and compete internationally.

 

USPSA can go their merry way.

 

Everyone is happy.

I think the issue is that USPSA members can't compete in the world shoot. And if they had a new IPSC USA club, it would need 2,000 members in order to actually get the slots necessary to field teams in our divisions.

 

Since there probably isn't 2,000 people who would join that, those people that want to shoot World Shoot won't be able to.



#34 Peally

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 10:42 AM

Interesting...

 

So the big concern is the "World Championship". Who controls it?

 

Well, it isn't a World Championship if a large part of the World isn't participating. There would have to be a stand alone match open to all shooters for it to be a true "World" championship.

 

I'm oddly good with that.

 

It's like the NFL. We're world champs baby! Not our fault if [insert country here] doesn't want to send their roided up team to compete.



#35 peterthefish

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 10:53 AM

I think the issue is that USPSA members can't compete in the world shoot. And if they had a new IPSC USA club, it would need 2,000 members in order to actually get the slots necessary to field teams in our divisions.

Since there probably isn't 2,000 people who would join that, those people that want to shoot World Shoot won't be able to.


Also, those 2,000 IPSC USA members would need permission from their RD to shoot USPSA matches, no?

It also sounds to me like the One Country / One Vote thing could be used by Pinto to force those countries where IPSC membership is required to own a gun to either give their proxy or be expelled for some made up reason..?

I'd like to apologize to incoherent Chinese guy who seems to have been onto something with this - I just couldn't tell Pinto from Kung Pao in those posts.

Finally, I think USPSA absolutely should fill the void and sanction clubs / matches internationally. I'm guessing "Fuck Pinto" isn't a uniquely US state of mind.
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#36 3gundago

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 10:54 AM

so two giant WOTs to read.  all i care about is the beard shitcanning the turtle target and properly re-naming our target as CLASSIC.

 

oh yea, fuck france-they still owe us for WW2.


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#37 Flexmoney

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 10:55 AM

With respect, it sounds like Mr. Oosthuisen should have paid attention to the board minutes versus waiting for a Facebook post. AFAIK this has been a boiling issue for a long time.

 

 

Yep, same issue...at least since Mike Voigt took office.

 

 

The difference is that new resolution, which backs USPSA into a corner.  (a dumb move on IPSC's part, but sounds about right considering the players...I am sure they were ready to move forward with their own IPSC minions in the USA tho)


Unless otherwise noted, expect that all my posting here is in true Doodie fashion.  If my post somehow upsets your sensibilities, well...there ya go.  


#38 leas327

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 10:55 AM

Uh no. It's Monday. No one much gives a flying shit about whether or not you get an expense-paid trip to Europe.


Thats what Im gathering as well. Seems like there is plenty of time for the 60 US ballers to form their own region and lick Vince's boots to get slots. They will just have to go on their own dime.

#39 LeadChucker

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 11:00 AM

Ummm, 60 want to get a paid trip to France on the backs of 27,000

Fuck that

Fuck IPSC

Fuck Turtle Targets
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#40 jimbob

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 11:02 AM

It's like the NFL. We're world champs baby! Not our fault if [insert country here] doesn't want to send their roided up team to compete.

 

 

Matters not, i would encourage you to google who actuallly owns the term "World Shoot".

 

Hint, its not IPSC, or Vince.   Its an American genius.


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