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USPSA vs IPSC cage match


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#41 foofighter

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 11:04 AM

Leaving IPSC would mean no more fucks given about allowing foreign clubs to join USPSA.

There would probably be a fair number of clubs across the club that would rather affiliate with USPSA than IPSC.


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#42 jimbob

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 11:07 AM


Since there probably isn't 2,000 people who would join that, those people that want to shoot World Shoot won't be able to.

 

HAH.  There aren't even 200.



#43 MilkMyDuds

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 11:12 AM

I wonder why IDPA can have foreign clubs but USPSA cannot?

 

Is IDPA an affiliated organization of IPSC? I guess no?



#44 MemphisMechanic

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 11:16 AM

I wonder why IDPA can have foreign clubs but USPSA cannot?

Is IDPA an affiliated organization of IPSC? I guess no?

IDPA is the only tactigaming hybrid sport of its kind in the world...

It's like having a worldwide soccer/football and a worldwide water polo league. Both involve putting a ball into a net at the other end of a field, but one does it so much more slowly that it becomes an entirely new sport.

I used to IDPA fairly heavily. Quite a few of the foreign shooters I met were of a "we shoot this because it's a Vince free zone" mindset.
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I won an IDPA match once. It was neat.

#45 snark

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 11:19 AM

I've been watching this for a long time.   The IPSC-USPSA marriage has been on the rocks for 20 years (some trace it to MV's DQ in Brazil in 1996, some to the rulebook split, some to other events) and we keep patching it back up and papering over the differences... maybe it's time to try a trial separation.

 

It'll be hard on the kids for a few years.  My guess is "IPSC-USA" or whatever will be tiny enough that they won't be able to field a full set of shooters or teams.  Which will make the shooters that want a sponsor-paid party in Paris and some team-bling to parade around SHOT sad.  Which will make the rest of IPSC happy since they'll have a chance to win stuff.

 

The collateral damage will be the shooters that really want to shoot a World Shoot.  I'm pissed that I'm likely not going to get a World Shoot slot after doing the slot-dance, but am leaning towards a split as probably the right thing to do for USPSA as a whole.


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#46 Twinkie

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 11:24 AM

Came back to post that I completely agree with Leighton. Going to World Shoot has been one of my original shooting goals, and I wouldn't have gone to the IPSC Nationals twice, met some of the best people in shooting, and put so much effort into the shooting sports if I had not had the chance to represent the USA at the World Shoot. Only learning now my hopes and dreams are at the mercy of a political power struggle makes me wonder what it was all for. I do not want to go to France unless it is part of the USPSA delegation representing our region. Just like Leighton, the opportunity to do so means a lot to me.

President Foley,

Why didn't the membership hear of the risk to our standing in IPSC before now? Will we still be going to the World Shoot? I hope you can settle things definitively as soon as possible so those who want to spend thousands of their own money to go to the next World Shoot can do so with confidence. If we are not going, and if USPSA is to leave IPSC, let us know. It seems there has been a lack of transparency into the wider implications of USPSA policies for too long.
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#47 LeadChucker

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 11:35 AM

Twinkie
You are 1 of 60 of 27,000

Sorry
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#48 Miculek is a Noob

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 11:52 AM

On a related note --

 

I hereby nominate myself to be Regional Director of IPSC-Murica.

 

I will gladly approve any and all applications for members to compete overseas, in exchange for cash, guns, trinkets, baubles, or sexual favors (I retain right of refusal for the last one -- no homo shit). This is in keeping with longstanding IPSC practices of corruption, graft, and influence peddling.

 

Thank you for your support.


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#49 GuanoLoco

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 11:58 AM

First, we rename USPSA to the International Practical Shooting Association.

 

Then, we offer IPSA "sectional" or even "regional" affiliations to any countries or regions of countries that see fit to join our ranks.

 

Then, we rename the USPSA Nationals to the IPSA Whirled Chute Championship, and spend $100,000 + a % of international membership dues to subsidize international shooters who want to come to the US to compete in it.

 

If we want, new provisional divisions can be created that 'just happen' to match the IPSC divisions to satisfy the needs of IPSA members who want to compete amongst themselves using IPSC-legal equipment.  We can offer a reciprocal relationship with IPSC where their members can shoot in provisional USPSA-legal equipment divisions.

 

All this should make the IPSA and IPSC leadership and members very happy and then we can all just get along!


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#50 adoo

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 11:59 AM

I feel the same, WS france 2017 is a big deal for me, and not beeing able to compete against the top US shooters is just sad. 

 

Also my 2018 plans was trying to attend uspsa open nationals and other large matches in the US



#51 Peally

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 12:00 PM

On a related note --

 

I hereby nominate myself to be Regional Director of IPSC-Murica.

 

I will gladly approve any and all applications for members to compete overseas, in exchange for cash, guns, trinkets, baubles, or sexual favors (I retain right of refusal for the last one -- no homo shit). This is in keeping with longstanding IPSC practices of corruption, graft, and influence peddling.

 

Thank you for your support.

 

I'll give $20 to go.


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#52 GuanoLoco

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 12:03 PM



I feel the same, WS france 2017 is a big deal for me, and not beeing able to compete against the top US shooters is just sad. 

 

Come to America and compete in our first annual Whirled Chute 2017. You would be a baller here and we (at least I) would treat you like royalty.

 

comingtoamerica.jpg


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#53 LeadChucker

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 12:03 PM

I feel the same, WS france 2017 is a big deal for me, and not beeing able to compete against the top US shooters is just sad.

We have USPSA Nationals every fucking year, so you can do it every year rather than every 3rd year. Buy a plane ticket and join the fun.

#54 LeadChucker

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 12:05 PM

Just to add, it's about fucking time we had a good topic to beat the shit out of around here. It's been fucking boring
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#55 SlivGod

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 12:15 PM

Twinkie
You are 1 of 60 of 27,000

Sorry

And of those 60, how many would actually be competitive at the WS? 


"Forget the necessities, it's the luxuries I can't live without." 


#56 bgary

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 12:15 PM

Yep, same issue...at least since Mike Voigt took office.
 
The difference is that new resolution, which backs USPSA into a corner.  (a dumb move on IPSC's part, but sounds about right considering the players...I am sure they were ready to move forward with their own IPSC minions in the USA tho)


Even longer. The "discourse" between Dave Stanford and JP Denis was... much the same as this.

The IPSC leadership has the votes of many small regions (cambodia?), including some where gun ownership is not even permitted (Japan)... and those votes give them power to steer the IPSC assembly in ways that they believe best suits the interests of their org. Those interests do not always align with *our* efforts to steer USPSA in ways that benefit our members.

So it goes.

Bottom line is, nothing has happened yet except a new rule got written. USPSA has not been sanctioned or disaffiliated. We're not banned from the World Shoot. There's plenty of opportunity for both sides to work together to find a way to sort this out. Again.

$.02

Disclaimer: I post here as an individual member of USPSA, and speak only for myself...


 


#57 Sprewell

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 12:16 PM

Just to add, it's about fucking time we had a good topic to beat the shit out of around here. It's been fucking boring

 

Is Leighton Ooswhatever the fuck related to the golfer?



#58 Ben

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 12:17 PM


Bottom line is, nothing has happened yet except a new rule got written. USPSA has not been sanctioned or disaffiliated. We're not banned from the World Shoot. There's plenty of opportunity for both sides to work together to find a way to sort this out. Again.

 

Yup



#59 snark

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 12:19 PM

And of those 60, how many would actually be competitive at the WS? 

 

An average US shooter probably finishes in the top 25% at a World Shoot.  There just aren't that many good shooters in the rest of the world.


Use the rules. Don't DQ someone who doesn't do anything DQable. -- Da Beard.

 


#60 LeadChucker

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 12:21 PM

Even longer. The "discourse" between Dave Stanford and JP Denis was... much the same as this.The IPSC leadership has the votes of many small regions (cambodia?), including some where gun ownership is not even permitted (Japan)... and those votes give them power to steer the IPSC assembly in ways that they believe best suits the interests of their org. Those interests do not always align with *our* efforts to steer USPSA in ways that benefit our members.So it goes.Bottom line is, nothing has happened yet except a new rule got written. USPSA has not been sanctioned or disaffiliated. We're not banned from the World Shoot. There's plenty of opportunity for both sides to work together to find a way to sort this out. Again.$.02


What benefit does "both sides work together to find a way to sort this out again" benefit the 26,940 of us who are NOT looking for a free ticket to France? Sarcasm over, what does being a IPSC region do for us the paying members? And let's not forget the large quantities of money it costs us to be a member. Sorry, but I just don't see an upside to membership in IPSC for the rank and file, you know... Those of us that pay the bills.
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