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"New Style" open guns vs OG open guns

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Poll: What kind of open gun do you like? (62 member(s) have cast votes)

New Gen or Old

  1. I like em short and fat, new for me (2 votes [3.23%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.23%

  2. Old style guns are what the pros shoot, clearly that's correct (5 votes [8.06%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.06%

  3. Quit asking stupid gear questions, it doesn't fucking matter (20 votes [32.26%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 32.26%

  4. Open is dumb (35 votes [56.45%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 56.45%

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#1 GooldMember

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Posted 19 October 2016 - 10:07 PM

I have previously admitted to you all that I am an open shooter.  For the most part, I think open is the only division that matters, hence why I have this question. Not to mention that equipment is clearly the thing that separates the wannabes from the real stalkers of death. And I know how much you all love gear questions. 

 

ANYWAY.

 

I do realize that there aren't many on this forum, but was hoping maybe one of you that is member of the superior breed have experience with these new fangled "New Generation" open guns that peeps like Atlas Gunworks and Limcat are pushing.  What I mean by "new gen" are the shorty or mid-length guns, with steel grips, long dust covers, popple holes.. heavy short loud sumbitches.

 

I was just watching the Atlas video where Adam discusses them (seen below) and tries to sell the viewer on how everyone should be shooting these crazy heavy new gen guns in open, and that more weight is clearly better yadda yadda.

 

The gun he has in this video weighs 54 ounces. That is a lot of ounces. My current gun weighs 38.8 oz, so that is a 40% increase in weight. I'm not sure that I am down with that.

 

Have any of my fellow master race brethren used both styles, or have any insights into this situation?  (light "old" guns and "new" gen)  I am considering finally getting a brand new build at some point in the future, so I can quit buying mystery guns that have lots of problems. 

 

 

Edited to clarify that I am a dumbass and should have posted this under technical discussion, the moderators should probably move it there. I apologize for inconveniencing everyone with my stupidity. 



#2 snark

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Posted 19 October 2016 - 10:12 PM

What wins hasn't changed much in 5-10 years.

 

Tanfoglio Eric Extreme Ultra Extreme Eric Gold Extreme if you are French.  Some sort of Trubor-like STI thingy with SIG on the side if you are Max.

 

Sideways scope mounts need not apply.


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#3 WJM

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Posted 19 October 2016 - 10:13 PM

From a Statics or Physics standpoint it really does make sense to have a shorter gun. 

Longer gun means more distance for the force to "torque" up. I want to say its creating a moment but my statics has always pretty much sucked.

Then again it seems like he is trying to sell his product by continuously stating how much better it is. 

I am torn.

 

Good thing I shoot production.



#4 GooldMember

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Posted 19 October 2016 - 10:20 PM

Look at what wins.  I'm pretty sure that hasn't changed in 5-10 years or more.

 

Tanfoglio Eric Extreme Ultra Extreme Gold Extreme if you are French.  Some sort of Trubor STI if you are Max.

 

Sideways scope mounts need not apply.

Sideways scope mounts are stupid as fuck. End of discussion. Either man up and shoot a single headstamp of brass with a gun that is tuned to eject without problems around your vertical mount, or use a mini dot. 90 degree = dumb. Also, the Tanfo is kind of, in a way, an example of what the "new gen" guns look like. All metal, long dust cover, short barrel, holes. Same kind of concept. But I am not French, nor do I want to shoot a dumbass V12.

 

 

From a Statics or Physics standpoint it really does make sense to have a shorter gun. 

Longer gun means more distance for the force to "torque" up. I want to say its creating a moment but my statics has always pretty much sucked.

Then again it seems like he is trying to sell his product by continuously stating how much better it is. 

I am torn.

 

Good thing I shoot production.

 

I definitely understand your physics reasoning/argument, and appreciate your input. I also agree he is pushing his product very hard.

 

But, production remains dumb. Carry on.


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#5 snark

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Posted 19 October 2016 - 10:33 PM

I've been through the ever-larger-tube-dot craze (PDP4 anyone?), 9x21 P9's. the 9x25 Dillon craze (flattest shooting open gun there ever was, yet nobody shoots one... hmm), the 9x23 craze, the hybridcomp craze, the Eotech craze, the long-heavy craze, the short-light craze, and several others I forgot or obliterated intentionally with booze.

 

Bottom line is as long as your gun is reliable and accurate and it's not stupid-light or stupid-heavy and has a halfway decent comp, the rest of the details don't mean squat.


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#6 GooldMember

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Posted 19 October 2016 - 11:05 PM

 

Bottom line is as long as your gun is reliable and accurate and it's not stupid-light or stupid-heavy and has a halfway decent comp, the rest of the details don't mean squat.

These two things are what makes this interesting to me. My old gun had mysterious issues, that I struggled to ever identify. My current gun has mysterious issues that only pop up in matches. Getting through a match without a malfunction is a huge accomplishment, hence why I am considering getting a new gun when money allows. 

 

My current gun would probably be pretty close to the stupid-light end of the spectrum at <39 ounces. I just have no frame of reference as to what a gun in the mid 50's would even feel like. You say you have experienced the long-heavy and short-light fads, but what about short-heavy? No one around me has one I could try (that I know of), otherwise I would just do that. 



#7 GuanoLoco

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Posted 19 October 2016 - 11:08 PM

You had me at "Open is Dumb" but if pressed I could fall back to "Gear doesn't matter" assuming the gear works, but then again we are talking about Open guns so I ask that you return your attention to my earlier point.

If you spent your hard earned cash on hookers and blow, and your time in dry fire we would be more understanding.

BUT, we know you will buy some new hotness open gun that you will someday sell to some starry-eyed asshole who will save himself a lot of time by reading your missive above instead of 'saving money' by spending his hard-earned cash on your now old and busted open gun.

BUT, who am I to deny the circle of life for Open Division shooters?
Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Doodie Project?

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#8 slemmo

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Posted 19 October 2016 - 11:22 PM

Having the weight at the pivot point to me sounds like the gun would recoil more than having it spread out in the gun and also....lightening the gun at the business end to make it easier to transition? Sounds like a girly gun. If you can't wield your gun properly lift some weights a couple times a week maybe. I would rather have a bit of weight at the barrel to make the gun more stable to shoot.

 

Tanfo open guns have a horrible reputation at least in Norway btw, absolutely no one buy them anymore. But I know there are a lot of weird people in other European countries, so maybe they are popular in France.



#9 GooldMember

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 01:03 AM

Having the weight at the pivot point to me sounds like the gun would recoil more than having it spread out in the gun and also....lightening the gun at the business end to make it easier to transition? Sounds like a girly gun. If you can't wield your gun properly lift some weights a couple times a week maybe. I would rather have a bit of weight at the barrel to make the gun more stable to shoot.

 

Tanfo open guns have a horrible reputation at least in Norway btw, absolutely no one buy them anymore. But I know there are a lot of weird people in other European countries, so maybe they are popular in France.

Physics would disagree with your first part. Rotational inertia = radius from pivot point X mass. The closer to the pivot the weight, the less effect it has.

 

And yes, it does sound like they are trying to make a girly gun.  But I have girly little hands and arms, and greatly dislike working out, so it sounds right up my alley. I would much rather try to buy improvements to my shooting, than actually practice and get gooder. The un-girly part about these funny fat guns are the ridiculous amount they weigh, it would be like working out every time I dry fired with the beast. Might make me dry fire even less than I do now, who knows?


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#10 slemmo

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 01:11 AM

Turning heavy wheel is harder than a light one even though the center mass is the same? or have i got it wrong. I would assume having mass at the front of the gun would elimitate upwards barrel movement more than having the mass at the pivot point. But I'm not a physicist by no means.



#11 adoo

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 02:29 AM

Master race? Im Master.. so.. GM race.

 

90 mounts work, deal with it, even the top guys use it.

 

heavy vs light is preference, I prefer heavy. my main gun is 57.7 right now. 

 

winner of EHC shot svi imm with rts2 in 38 supercomp (163-164PF) this is a "shorty" ish

2nd place was a beat to hell tanfo (jamie) 

3rd place (2nd place ehc) was a STI DVC with 90 mount, 38 super (emile)

 

winner of shootoff was original czechmate no popples. 

 

Flatness is overrated, something that tracks true is better. when it says beep, nothing has recoil anyway.

 

btw, shot EHC 2016 with no jams, no mikes, no penalties... fuck ye, 9 major at 163,5PF

 

 

this is my 2nd attempt at posting, fuck if I know what happend to first. 



#12 Scott

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 05:32 AM

Akai is making the most bleeding edge guns.  Short gun with ultra light slide and tungsten sleeved barrel and metal grip.  They transition like a limited gun and track straight up and down with the v8 holes config like the tangfos.  

Best shooting open gun I have ever shot.  Super soft



#13 Scott

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 05:36 AM

Like this...

Open%20guns_zps8ntt9j0f.jpg



#14 aceinyerface

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 05:48 AM

Open is dumb.

Even dumber is having a $5000 gun but still pulling a fucking handle. Mark 7 bitches.
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#15 Scott

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 06:20 AM

Open is dumb.

Even dumber is having a $5000 gun but still pulling a fucking handle. Mark 7 bitches.

 

One Mk7 is dumb.  3 Mk7's bitches



#16 peterthefish

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 06:21 AM

Akai is making the most bleeding edge guns. Short gun with ultra light slide and tungsten sleeved barrel and metal grip. They transition like a limited gun and track straight up and down with the v8 holes config like the tangfos.

Best shooting open gun I have ever shot. Super soft

Are they stroked? Or do you have to save all the strokin' for the Hebrew Ninja because sponsorship?

#17 Vagetarian

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 06:43 AM

I am not currently sponsored by Shay Akai of Akai Superguns but I do stay at Holiday Inn Express on occasion so I am well suited to suggest that Shay Akai of Akai Superguns is the most cutting edge designer and manufacturer of performance weapons in America today.  All you have to do is watch some YouTube videos of the V8's and V12's in action to know that they are fast, balanced, and flat.  There is a definite reason why most people who shoot Akai Superguns make GM within days of acquisition.


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#18 u sofa king we todd ed

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 07:16 AM

I am not currently sponsored by Shay Akai of Akai Superguns but I do stay at Holiday Inn Express on occasion so I am well suited to suggest that Shay Akai of Akai Superguns is the most cutting edge designer and manufacturer of performance weapons in America today.  All you have to do is watch some YouTube videos of the V8's and V12's in action to know that they are fast, balanced, and flat.  There is a definite reason why most people who shoot Akai Superguns make GM within days minutes of acquisition.

FIFY.



#19 GooldMember

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 08:17 AM



Master race? Im Master.. so.. GM race.

90 mounts work, deal with it, even the top guys use it.

heavy vs light is preference, I prefer heavy. my main gun is 57.7 right now.

winner of EHC shot svi imm with rts2 in 38 supercomp (163-164PF) this is a "shorty" ish
2nd place was a beat to hell tanfo (jamie)
3rd place (2nd place ehc) was a STI DVC with 90 mount, 38 super (emile)

winner of shootoff was original czechmate no popples.

Flatness is overrated, something that tracks true is better. when it says beep, nothing has recoil anyway.

btw, shot EHC 2016 with no jams, no mikes, no penalties... fuck ye, 9 major at 163,5PF


this is my 2nd attempt at posting, fuck if I know what happend to first.


The master race is open shooters, of any flavor. You are one of us.

Heavy vs light is really the crux of the argument here. I have never shot a heavy gun, how would you say it compares to a light gun in feel?

#20 Peally

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 08:23 AM

I feel like unless a 40% increase in weight is giving you even a 10% increase in ability it ain't worth paying extra for and lugging around everywhere.







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