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Ben's book El Pres dry fire par time.


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#1 redrider

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 03:17 PM

I shoot the El Pres in real life, cold, with production gear, in 6.0 seconds and all alpha pretty much at will. I can drop to 5.50 range and drop 2-3 C hits. In real life my turn and draw is 1.25 normally on this drill and my reload is 1.35. So comfortable splits and transitions in the 0.25-0.29 range.

 

But when I've been doing the drill in the Dry Fire for Practical Pistol Shooters for El Pres I can't make the par time of 3.50 seconds. At all, and especially if I'm not reasonably sure of an A hit doing the drill.

 

I'm using 1/2 scale targets and at the appropriate distance to simulate 10 yards. I'm hearing the timer beep as I'm coming onto or firing the first shot on the middle target after the reload. So I'm behind the curve 3 to 4 shots and a transition.

 

Is anyone else having a hard time meeting this par time in dry fire? Like most people working El Pres I focus on whipping my head around to the first target asap and doing a quick and clean reload.

 

I could make this par time only if I just did the mechanical motions and didn't aim or see my sights at all.



#2 Sprewell

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 03:24 PM

When you say "real life" and "all alpha" I assume you are regularly shooting Tangos in the face?


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#3 redrider

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 04:07 PM

Nope, they only shot at me. I never got to shoot at them but that was a looong time ago.

 

Because I'm earnest and have poor sarcasm detection, in real life means shooting ammo at the range and all alpha means the favorable scoring zone in the center of the target. But I think you knew that but just had nothing helpful to add to the discussion because it's doodie.


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#4 Yachtmaster

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 05:25 PM

My short answer is you need to go faster...in both live and dry fire.

 

My long answer is I suspect you can't smash his dry (or live) fire singular draw or reload times, let alone put them all together in a comprehensive drill.

 

Break each component down, smash those times and continue to put them all back together.

 

I also question whether you truly know what sight picture you need (or better yet, what sight picture you don't need) at 10 yards, or any other distance for that matter.  You don't need to see what you think you need to see.

 
I'm trying to fight thru all the same stuff.


#5 NickBlasta

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 05:30 PM

Keep getting gooder and you'll see the times go down.



#6 Will

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 06:36 PM

Here's an idea for you:

Make an excel spread sheet to track your:
Draws (including your turn)
Hits (alpha, bravo, Charlie, delta, mike)
Splits
Transitions
Reload
Overall time

Live fire that shit for 10 to 20 runs and be honest in scoring it; video it. Then plug the data in the spread sheet and you'll find places where you can:
Go faster
Trade an alpha hit for a Charlie
Position your feet for a faster turn
Ways to speed your reload

You can even go to Bens YouTube page and bench mark your results to his to find improvement opportunities.

Your live fire results will help figure out places to improve in live and dry fire to get to a desired hit factor.

Based on what you said, an all alpha runs in 6 seconds overall classifier calculator shows it's a 10 hit factor translating into greater than 90% which is M or GM level; so why is a 3.5 dry fire important??

#7 redrider

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 07:53 PM

Oh I know I 100 that classifier in Prod, and I have a couple others at 100 in Prod too. So I know I'm capable, I'm at 91% in Prod right now.

 

I can make the times for 85% of the other drills in the book, but the the El Pres one seems maddeningly the main one I'm not making. As I was getting better back at B and A I knew it was the turn n draw and the reload where it was killing me. Since I can do the 1sec par time reload in the book and a 1.10 turn in dray in the book that still leaves me with just 1.40 seconds to do the rest of the 11 shots......


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#8 redrider

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 07:54 PM

As for why, well because I'm working on trying to comfortably make all the times in the book with seeing good hits. As I'm able to do it on a bunch of them I find myself working on the ones I'm not doing well at, and this is one of them.

 

This one and the plate rack are the two in the book I'm not making.



#9 Lloyd Christmas

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 08:05 PM

I suspect that your reload is the limiting factor. 1.35 seconds isn't slow, but if you could get that down to about a second and your draw there as well, I bet you'd be there. Just be conscious of your grip and trigger control even when you're trying to smash the fastest DF par times, or you'll be doing your shooting a disservice in the end.


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#10 Lloyd Christmas

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 08:07 PM

Btw, I can't realistically do 3.5 second DF El Prezes either, but I can do 4 seconds with all called alphas, and I just shot a 100% on it in Single Stack the last time I shot it. El Prez is one of the easier classifiers to hundo in real life, they are by far not all the same. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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#11 redrider

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 08:22 PM

Thank you for that ^^.



#12 redrider

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 08:25 PM

Yep trying to avoid messing myself up chasing something in dry fire just for the hell of it. Drives me crazy, trying to hit that 3.5 seconds and calling legitimate hits.



#13 Lloyd Christmas

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 08:36 PM

I'm not saying that it can't be done, it clearly can, but the numbers it takes are pretty lofty. I just did the math:
.90 draw and .90 reload (total time 1.80)
.15 splits X 6 (total time .90)
.20 transition X 4 (total time .80)
That's how you do a 3.50 El Prez by the numbers.


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#14 Peally

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 08:45 PM

It's a mofo of a time limit. I tried it tonight but couldn't connect a damn thing. Stopped dropping F bombs and yelling and went and watched baseball instead.


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#15 Yachtmaster

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 10:36 PM

Sounds like switching to SS is the answer.


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#16 SME at Pistol Forum

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 01:28 AM

If you are doing 10 HF on demand I would say you're doing all right. 10 HF is GM shooting.

 

And a 1.35 second reload...to take one from TGO, your not going to lose a match with a reload like that.

 

If I had your "problem" I'd probably just concentrate on another part of my game where I'm weaker.

 

When you come back you'll probably see you're getting closer to the 3.5.


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Pistol Forum Subject Matter Expert...  Which pretty much equals B class at Doodie Project


#17 maximis228

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 07:13 AM

If you are doing 10 HF on demand I would say you're doing all right. 10 HF is GM shooting.

 

Not for everyone. 10.0 is a High A in Open.



#18 Jay870

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 07:58 AM

For me the slow spots are basically the transitions between component skills. So even if I'm nailing the individual skills I have dead time while I pat myself on the back or whatever the fuck my brain does before shifting to the next skill. I have to figure how to make it flow.

 

Currently like this:

draw------press,press,transition,press,press,transition,press,press-------reload------press,press,transition,press,press,transition,press,press

 

Needs to be like this:

draw,press,press,transition,press,press,transition,press,press,reload,press,press,transition,press,press,transition,press,press


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#19 Peally

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 08:19 AM

Just consider those spaces between actions transitions that need to be quicker as well.



#20 aceinyerface

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 08:53 AM

Steve Anderson has tricks for speeding up your El Prez.


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