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Econominical Pressure Signs Double Charge Reverse Temp Insensitive Bern Rate Primer Flow Extrooded Off Book Loads Meeeters Well Densenessity

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#81 GuanoLoco

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 08:35 PM

And 2 spaces for the win. Don't like it? Get mod privileges for this dumpster fire and fix all my posts.
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#82 ToddKS

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 08:39 PM

Not unless you're using monospaced fonts, you dumb shit. Like this.

Blasphemy

#83 Miculek is a Noob

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 09:42 PM

Troglodytes.

#84 GooldMember

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Posted 11 December 2016 - 11:00 PM

AA9 and 115s. Because not a peasant.

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#85 Bikerburgess

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 03:32 PM

AA9 and 115s in 357 sig, load between 12 and 13.5 grains so definitely not for peasants

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#86 GuanoLoco

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 03:43 PM

I've got data to post about my recent work with TiteGroup, Prima V, Prima SV and WST.  Need time to write up.

 

Still planning to do Win 231 and Nitro 100.  Thanks to those that have (or will) donate powder.

 

Q: How many people believe the anecdotal claims periodically posted on Benos, etc. that Win WST is 'reverse temperature sensitive'?

 

I have to admit, that has always sounded to me like some seriously unlikely bullshit and I have scoffed at the posters.  Then again, I'm no chemist/physicist so who knows. 


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#87 Miculek is a Noob

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 04:05 PM

You're challenging that WST in particular is inverse temp senstive? Or that such a condition even exists?



#88 peterthefish

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 04:25 PM

You're challenging that WST in particular is inverse temp senstive? Or that such a condition even exists?

I believe he's challenging that such a condition exists. Because science.
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#89 GuanoLoco

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 04:40 PM

You're challenging that WST in particular is inverse temp senstive? Or that such a condition even exists?

 

Indeed.  I want to know the troof.  Because Doodie is the epicenter of peer-reviewed empirical testing and the unbiased reporting of indisputable results.


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#90 Roons

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 04:44 PM

Because Doodie is the epicenter of peer-reviewed empirical testing and the unbiased reporting of indisputable results.

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#91 Vagetarian

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 04:54 PM

Indeed. I want to know the troof. Because Doodie is the epicenter of peer-reviewed empirical testing and the unbiased reporting of indisputable results.

It's true. My friends brother-in-law shoots with a guy who knows a guy who went to St. George and chrono'd minor because it was somewhat cold that day compared to the day he tested his ammo. Total waste of a trip to Utah.

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#92 GuanoLoco

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 08:36 PM

9mm
Nobel Sport Vectan Prima V
135 gr Bayou Bullet - Hitek Coated
Federal Small Pistol Primers
1.090-1.100 COAL
EAA/Tanfoglio Stock 2 - 4.5" Barrel, Polygonal rifling

2.8 gr, 794 fps, failure to extract
3.2, 891 120 pf, weak extraction, slide lock
3.4, 929, 125 pf
3.5, 956, 129 pf
3.6 958, 129 pf
3.7 985, 132 pf
3.8 991, 133 pf

10 rounds @ 3.6 gr - Lo 958, Hi 1002, ES 44, Avg 973, PF 131

10 rounds heated on oil heater - 132.7 PF
10 rounds chilled in chest freezer - 130.2 PF

Minimal smoke, no bad smell. Consider to be temp insensitive. Fills about 1/2 a case+, reduced concern of double charges. Consistency is like small sharp pieces of gravel of varying sizes. Seems to stay put in case during loading as opposed to lower density flakes. Current availability quite good. Current cost is competitive with or better than other powders. Comes in 1/2 kilo, 1.1 lb containers so 10% more product than most.

Seeing flattening of Federal SPP's on radius but this is consistent amongst ETR-7, Prima V, TiteGroup, WST and less so of Win 231 in testing so far. Nothing unusual.

I loaded 500 but haven't tested them. I have a good feeling about this powder.
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#93 GuanoLoco

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 08:42 PM

9mm
Nobel Sport Vectan Prima SV - TOO FAST, NOT A GOOD CANDIDATE!
135 gr Bayou Bullet - Hitek Coated
Federal Small Pistol Primers
1.090-1.100 COAL
EAA/Tanfoglio Stock 2 - 4.5" Barrel, Polygonal rifling

2.7 gr, 860 fps, no slide lock
2.8, 892, no slide lock
2.9, 903, slide lock, 121.9 pf
3.0, 908, 122.5 pf, 12 pf

Showing increasing pressure signs (flattening of radius) on Federal primers, adding powder with little increase in fps = warning sign. Powder is NOT appropriate for objective. Discontinued testing.
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#94 GuanoLoco

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 08:56 PM

9mm
Hogdon Titegroup
135 gr Bayou Bullet - Hitek Coated
Federal Small Pistol Primers
1.090-1.100 COAL
EAA/Tanfoglio Stock 2 - 4.5" Barrel, Polygonal rifling

3.5gr, 992 fps, 133.9 PF - wow, started hot

4 more @ 3.5gr: Lo 968 fps, Hi 992, Extreme Spread 24

9 more: Avg 131.7 PF, Lo 961m Hi 990, ES 39

Irregular fine flake. A little low on density, less than 1/2 case at 3.5 gr could double charge or more. Seemed smokier than others. Definite flattening of Federal SPP's (not unusual with other powders tested later). Lowest charge weight to make target power factor of any powder tested in series.

Loaded 500 but haven't tested further. Buddy who shot TG always had a nasty dirty Stock 2.

No temp testing.
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#95 GuanoLoco

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 09:23 PM

9mm
Winchester WST
135 gr Bayou Bullet - Hitek Coated
Federal Small Pistol Primers
1.090-1.100 COAL
EAA/Tanfoglio Stock 2 - 4.5" Barrel, Polygonal rifling

3.7 gr, 942, 968, 959 fps, 127-130 PF, erratic
3.8 gr, 983, 979 fps, 132 PF
3.9 gr, 983 fps, 132 pf

10 @ 3.9 gr: Lo 984, hi 1013, avg 995, ES 29, PF = 134

Fine fluffy flakes. Was actually hard to put back in bottle once in fluffed up state. Some spilling of flake during automated 1050 loading process - flakes are almost too small/light/fluffy. A little smokey during testing.

9 rounds chilled in chest freezer - avg 1029 fps, 138.9 PF, E.S. 20
10 rounds heated on oil heater - ac 950 fps, 128 PF, E.S. 88

WTF? Win WST IS not only temp sensitive but actually REVERSE temperature sensitive. Who'da thunk it?!?!?!

OK for practice ammo but I can't see using this for major matches without compensating for temp. Very high E.S. At higher temperatures (like a full mag left in the sun on a hot day)
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#96 GuanoLoco

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 09:35 PM

9mm
Winchester 231 (aka HP-38)
135 gr Bayou Bullet - Hitek Coated
Federal Small Pistol Primers
1.090-1.100 COAL
EAA/Tanfoglio Stock 2 - 4.5" Barrel, Polygonal rifling

3.5 gr 911 fps, 122 PF
3.6 gr 957, 129 pf
3.7, 980, 971, 131-132 pf
3.8, 989, 992, 133 pf
3.9 1007, 135 pf

10 rounds @ ~72F: Lo 994, Hi 1039 (Flyer), Avg 1004, E.S. 43

8 rounds heated on oil heater - avg 972.5, 131 PF
10 rounds from chest freezer - avg 1017, 137 PF. 3 'hot' rounds at 1032, 1041, 1042 fps.

WTF? Win WST AND Win 231 are both reverse temp sensitive? Who'da thunk it....

This powder seems a little more manageable than WST but is definitely showing primer flattening at 138 PF. Less at 131-134 PF.

I guess if you are Leadchucker and shoot in a predictable climate that this could be a good choice.
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#97 GuanoLoco

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 09:47 PM

9mm
Expansion Industries (Out of Business???) ETR-7, supposedly same as MAXAM CSB-1
135 gr Bayou Bullet - Hitek Coated
Federal Small Pistol Primers
1.090-1.100 COAL
EAA/Tanfoglio Stock 2 - 4.5" Barrel, Polygonal rifling

5 rounds spot test using usual 3.7 gr load:

1001, 994, 999, 989, 984 fps, lo 984, hi 1001, e.s. 17, avg 993 fps, 134 PF

In 3 of the last 4 majors I chronoed at 134.x PF, 1 of the 4 at 132.x PF. Prior temperature sensitivity testing showed about 1% variation in PF from chest freezer cold to oil heater hot. Medium flake powder, meters reasonably well on Dillon powder measure. Mild smoke, Runs plausible clean compared to other powders. Prices were$60-$75/4 lb jug.

Until recently this was my favorite powder - price was good, behavior predictable. I would have happily stuck with it.

NOTE: Expansion Industries web site has been down for months, they are not answering the phones, and they have always charged credit cards immediately upon taking orders. Delivery has been late on last couple of deliveries .... or on my last (September) order, never delivered. The last guy I spoke to lied to me. I am being made whole by my credit card company on my last order. You have been warned.

Based on testing so far, Prima V looks like my top candidate. I would consider Maxam CSB-1 (hopefully same as ETR-7, but I haven't proven it to self yet) but am concerned that I am constrained to a single supplier.

I have sme VV N320 handy, I might test that as well but it is effectively priced out of the market and availability in the past has been unpredictable.
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#98 Miculek is a Noob

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 09:52 PM

9mm
Nobel Sport Vectan Prima V.

Consistency is like small sharp pieces of gravel of varying sizes.


I like this characteristic on its face. Screw uniform sizes and that flake vs powder vs pellet bullshit.

#99 Miculek is a Noob

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 09:54 PM

I don't get too excited about a little primer flow with Federals. I think one of the ingredients is Marshmallows.

#100 GuanoLoco

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 09:56 PM

I don't get too excited about a little primer flow with Federals. I think one of the ingredients is Marshmallows.


I have definitely come to the same conclusion, but also think federals make it much easier to monitor for pressure issues.
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