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Most Awesomest Competition Powders

Econominical Pressure Signs Double Charge Reverse Temp Insensitive Bern Rate Primer Flow Extrooded Off Book Loads Meeeters Well Densenessity

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#101 u sofa king we todd ed

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 05:58 AM

Nice write ups Guano. Very informative...Don't let it happen again. Did you forget this is Doodie?
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#102 Vagetarian

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 07:18 AM

9mm
Winchester WST
135 gr Bayou Bullet - Hitek Coated
Federal Small Pistol Primers
1.090-1.100 COAL
EAA/Tanfoglio Stock 2 - 4.5" Barrel, Polygonal rifling

3.7 gr, 942, 968, 959 fps, 127-130 PF, erratic
3.8 gr, 983, 979 fps, 132 PF
3.9 gr, 983 fps, 132 pf

10 @ 3.9 gr: Lo 984, hi 1013, avg 995, ES 29, PF = 134

Fine fluffy flakes. Was actually hard to put back in bottle once in fluffed up state. Some spilling of flake during automated 1050 loading process - flakes are almost too small/light/fluffy. A little smokey during testing.

9 rounds chilled in chest freezer - avg 1029 fps, 138.9 PF, E.S. 20
10 rounds heated on oil heater - ac 950 fps, 128 PF, E.S. 88

WTF? Win WST IS not only temp sensitive but actually REVERSE temperature sensitive. Who'da thunk it?!?!?!

OK for practice ammo but I can't see using this for major matches without compensating for temp. Very high E.S. At higher temperatures (like a full mag left in the sun on a hot day)

I fucking told you so.  Do you even Enos bro?


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#103 GuanoLoco

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 08:15 AM

Nice write ups Guano. Very informative...Don't let it happen again. Did you forget this is Doodie?

  

I fucking told you so.  Do you even Enos bro?


Doodies don't let Doodies Benos.
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#104 Sprewell

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 08:24 AM

I would like your temperature tests a lot better if said temperatures were documented.  How hot is the top of an oil heater?

 

Based on my complete lack of understanding of chemistry and thermosomethings; I can imagine that excessive temperatures could degrade the powder.

 

To me the relevant ranges would be from about 25f to however hot a car gets parked in the sun on a hot Alabama day.


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#105 Twinkie

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 08:57 AM

My experience with WST is that it is very hard to get consistent drops. Lots of bridging and static electricity causes powder spillage. Very nice shooting, other than that. I don't plan on buying any more when it's gone. I'd much rather shoot AA#2 or something else more consistent. 

 

Thanks for sharing your data, Guano.


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#106 GuanoLoco

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 09:04 AM

I don't have an appropriate thermometer handy but I can work on that.  Old chest freezer is maybe -5F.  Oil heater is hand-calibrated to the heat of a magazine left in the sun on a hot Alabama day - uncomfortable to the touch.  I don't leave it on there all that long, so if there is degradation then the same would occur leaving a mag in the sun for a while.

 

Short version - I was trying to quickly get to temps that were colder and hotter that I would realistically be shooting a match in.  Unless I am desperate I plan to choose a powder than is temp-insensitive for my purposes.

 

Result - Only an issue for Win WST and Win 231/HP-38, and 'Reverse Temperature Sensitive' really is a thing.


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#107 GuanoLoco

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 09:07 AM

My experience with WST is that it is very hard to get consistent drops. Lots of bridging and static electricity causes powder spillage. Very nice shooting, other than that. I don't plan on buying any more when it's gone. I'd much rather shoot AA#2 or something else more consistent. 

 

Thanks for sharing your data, Guano.

 

The WST testing was mostly based on Jae recommending it a few times.  He seems squared away...well except for the crossfit stuff, anyhow.

 

My favorite part of WST was pouring the unused powder back in the bottle and apparently finishing with more than I started with.  Now THAT would be a powder characteristic I could get behind.


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#108 Flexmoney

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 09:26 AM

AA9 and 115s. Because not a peasant.
 

 

Shut up and eat your $5 pizza.


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Unless otherwise noted, expect that all my posting here is in true Doodie fashion.  If my post somehow upsets your sensibilities, well...there ya go.  


#109 B_RAD

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 02:00 PM

Never tried PV. Can't find any locally. After reading nothing but positive info, I'm gonna order 10# from Graffs to take advantage of the waiver HM fee.
You serious, Clark?

#110 MemphisMechanic

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 04:44 PM

🐑shot competition except some dick on BENOS said it sucks so it's bad.

Multiple dicks. Including myself.

I bought the hype and ordered 8lbs of Ramshot Comp. It's soft...ish, feels a lot like TG. Not as soft as Solo1k or Clays. But it's even dirtier than TG and I can't get an SD of less than 20 with it out of a Dillon measure behind a 135gr 9mm.

It's being used in practice ammo now, and like a tool I didn't learn my lesson. Now have 11lbs of Pretentious Frenchie Prima V - the new lovechild of the BEnos reloading forums. Hopefully this one actually pans out.
I won an IDPA match once. It was neat.

#111 peterthefish

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 04:53 PM

Yeah I don't get the SD problem, but I only use 147s for my minor loads (except open) and haven't had an issue like that. I'll have to run the Akai test on my batch and see if the flame heights are more consistent than what others are getting.

#112 GuanoLoco

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 08:49 PM

I think the SD's and 'cleanliness' of all these powders suck until you start running them at the upper end of their range.
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#113 ron169

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 09:06 PM

Guano, invest in a laser thermometer. You will only use it like 5 times in your life, but when you need it, you need it. He'll, I'll let you borrow mine if you want.

#114 MemphisMechanic

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 10:50 PM

I think the SD's and 'cleanliness' of all these powders suck until you start running them at the upper end of their range.

According to what you read on the internet, I'm doing that.

3.8gr under a 135 grain bullet for 136pf with a powder that fast isn't exactly sluggish...
I won an IDPA match once. It was neat.

#115 GuanoLoco

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 11:44 PM

Well, some powders suck more than others.

I've had all kinds of cool toys, including a hand held FLIR unit for a while, but I had to give them back.
Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Doodie Project?

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#116 bailey

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 05:04 AM

The article that appears beginning on page 78 of the latest (Vol 33 No. 6) Frontsight is applicable to this thread. Many of the things appearing on the first three pages of the thread seem to be "gut feel" physics and are flat wrong.

 

Power factor (mv) is not the proper factor to evaluate recoil. Kinetic energy (1/2 mv2) is. This article identifies the gas (because of its velocity) as a bigger factor in recoil than the bullet. The gas escaping is anywhere from 7-15 times more important than the bullet in this recoil regard.

 

While this is not a universal truth, the less powder the less gas, thus the less recoil. This perfectly explains the known phenomena that heavier bullets requiring less powder and powders that require a lower loading (usually fast burning powders) are the combination resulting in lower perceived (and actual) recoil.

 

It is an article worth your time...to bad about you guys who went with the $25 membership.



#117 peterthefish

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 08:48 AM

The article that appears beginning on page 78 of the latest (Vol 33 No. 6) Frontsight is applicable to this thread. Many of the things appearing on the first three pages of the thread seem to be "gut feel" physics and are flat wrong.

Power factor (mv) is not the proper factor to evaluate recoil. Kinetic energy (1/2 mv2) is. This article identifies the gas (because of its velocity) as a bigger factor in recoil than the bullet. The gas escaping is anywhere from 7-15 times more important than the bullet in this recoil regard.

While this is not a universal truth, the less powder the less gas, thus the less recoil. This perfectly explains the known phenomena that heavier bullets requiring less powder and powders that require a lower loading (usually fast burning powders) are the combination resulting in lower perceived (and actual) recoil.

It is an article worth your time...to bad about you guys who went with the $25 membership.


I went with the $25 this year, but if that's what the article actually says it's just plain out fucking wrong. The gas escaping is generally at 2-4x the speed of the bullet, so its contribution to recoil is weighted more heavily. But it's mass is usually 2-5% of the projectile, so it's still the smallest part of the equation by far.

Momentum is also the only thing that matters re: recoil. Kinetic energy isn't preserved in an explosion, momentum is.

Looking at Heavy Bullet / Fast Powder vs Light Bullet / Slow Powder at the same PF:

- the light bullet will have more KE
- the light bullet load will recoil more, not because it has more KE, but because gas contributes more to recoil
- the light bullet load will be less comfortable (subjectively) to shoot because the pressure of the gas when the bullet exits the barrel will be higher. This is totally unrelated to actual recoil. (What sucks more - someone popping a half inflated balloon behind your ear, or a full one?
-The light bullet has more KE because the larger powder charge has more KE. But much of that KE is wasted as heat, noise, etc...

Whoever wrote said article is a fucknut who has no business writing articles about shit they know nothing about.


#118 busdriver

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 08:55 AM

But frontsight said!

#119 Stubb

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 08:58 AM

I think the SD's and 'cleanliness' of all these powders suck until you start running them at the upper end of their range.

 

Learned this trying to use Bullseye behind 165 gr. bullets. It got really dirty, and SD was ~50 fps IIRC. 



#120 Trigger Warning

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 01:03 PM

A 700 grain bullet backed by .64 grains of titegroup traveling just under 200fps is a nice light load, very little snap. If this still feels a little stout, wear gloves with lead lining in the palms.

On injured reserve.





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