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Econominical Pressure Signs Double Charge Reverse Temp Insensitive Bern Rate Primer Flow Extrooded Off Book Loads Meeeters Well Densenessity

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#141 ZachJ

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 10:59 PM

This stuff takes so many charges to settle, WTF. I am now going throw at least 50 charges to have the stuff settle after changing the amount the powder bar throws.

 

I threw 30 charges, then I set it to what was 3.4, 34.2, 68.1 charge weights for 1, 10, 20 throws.

 

300 rounds later I double-checked since new, and it threw a 70.3 for 20, then a 70.1 for another 20.

 

So now I have 300 rounds that have charge weights varying from 3.4-3.5 or so.

 

Learned my lesson though, and now I have it set to throw 3.35.

 

I'm curious whether emptying the hopper after say 500-1000 rounds will keep the throw weight consistent due to stratification as GL said, or if just leaving it as is will be fine.

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention, this stuff spills powder unlike TiteGroup. TG had some flakes that I could see this year on the shellplate, that's after loading at least 5k rounds.

 

Prima V had some small powder spilling onto the shellplate for the first 200 or so rounds, then it stopped. I'm guessing the parts of the powder die and funnel where the small pieces could slip through eventually get plugged up by larger pieces of powder. Chalk it up to the variable size of the powder granules I guess.


Edited by ZachJ, 22 July 2017 - 11:07 PM.

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#142 GuanoLoco

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 09:02 AM

If you can see obvious stratification layers in your powder measure, shake it more.

I haven't got this licked. Only downsides of PV that I see are the mixed granule sizes (pieces come out of primer hole if priming station malfunctions) and variations in powder charge over time, which I THINK is from stratification.

Availability is good, cost is excellent - especially with the but 10/no hazmat, burns clean with acceptable smoke/gun fouling, and temp insensitive.

What do you want?
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#143 adoo

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 11:47 AM

your doing everything wrong.

 

honestly TL;DR but I think Im right. 



#144 Vagetarian

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 01:13 PM

Sounds to me like a total pain in the dick.  I've got more important shit to worry about than my powder stratifying whatever the fuck that means.  


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#145 Peally

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 01:16 PM

Me buy titegroup me happy.
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#146 racetaco

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 04:36 PM

I don't get how dealing with this trouble is worth the small monetary savings.



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#147 ZachJ

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 12:26 AM

If you can see obvious stratification layers in your powder measure, shake it more.

I haven't got this licked. Only downsides of PV that I see are the mixed granule sizes (pieces come out of primer hole if priming station malfunctions) and variations in powder charge over time, which I THINK is from stratification.

Availability is good, cost is excellent - especially with the but 10/no hazmat, burns clean with acceptable smoke/gun fouling, and temp insensitive.

What do you want?

 

Just noting the stuff I went through as a first timer, especially the whole needing 50+ throws to settle. Not really complaining except for the potential of charge weight drifting.

 

My hopper looks like it has mixed granule sizes throughout so guess we'll see when/if stratification happens.

 

I don't get how dealing with this trouble is worth the small monetary savings.



WST or GTFO

 

Honestly, I think TG is fine, I still have 8lb or so that I am keeping as an emergency supply though.

 

The main reason is Prima V is cheaper at $25.88/1.1# vs. TG at $30/1# when bought in 8# jugs. Also Prima V doesn't leave crap all inside my gun. Which may or may not contribute to a different feeling trigger, and most importantly I think my slide slowing down/downright stopping in the middle of recoil (Thought it was BS last year when I noticed it, and that I was too much of a scrub to determine whether it existed so just ignored, but shooting this year, and having other people shoot my gun when it got dirty enough, they noticed as well).


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#148 racetaco

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 06:19 AM

Just noting the stuff I went through as a first timer, especially the whole needing 50+ throws to settle. Not really complaining except for the potential of charge weight drifting.
 
My hopper looks like it has mixed granule sizes throughout so guess we'll see when/if stratification happens.
 

 
Honestly, I think TG is fine, I still have 8lb or so that I am keeping as an emergency supply though.
 
The main reason is Prima V is cheaper at $25.88/1.1# vs. TG at $30/1# when bought in 8# jugs. Also Prima V doesn't leave crap all inside my gun. Which may or may not contribute to a different feeling trigger, and most importantly I think my slide slowing down/downright stopping in the middle of recoil (Thought it was BS last year when I noticed it, and that I was too much of a scrub to determine whether it existed so just ignored, but shooting this year, and having other people shoot my gun when it got dirty enough, they noticed as well).


Do whatever you want,,,just sayin.

#149 Vagetarian

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 06:39 AM

Yeah those 3/10's of a cent per round make a YUGE difference in the cost of ammo.  If TG is too dirty perhaps you're not loading it efficiently for complete burn.  


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#150 GuanoLoco

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 07:12 AM

TG is some NASTY crap compared to cleaner-burning powders like N320/ETR-7/Prima-V. I can watch a buddy shooting TG in a Tanfo and even the outside of his muzzle is fouled by the end of a training session.

I did some 9mm ACME 124gr load workups yesterday. Shook the hell out of a jug of Prima V before putting it into the hopper and it looked homogenous, unlike previously when I pour in an unshaken jug that is well settled from shipping.

Short version is I came up with 3.7-3.8gr Prima V, Fed SPP @ 1.130" COAL for about 131-133 PF using a new Chrony Chrono.

ES only tightens up at the top end, 3.8-4.0 grains but power factor didn't increase all that much. Even if there was some drift I think 3.7-3.9gr would be good to go. 3.6 gr was too erratic and too close to min PF for my tastes; chronoing at a major would give me sweats. More details later if I get motivated.
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#151 Yard Sale

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 02:24 PM

I got a notification from Midway that Solo 1000 was available. This was the hot ticket for 9mm 147gr until the great powder shortage hit a few years ago. It was made in Spain and they had supply problems and their dog ate their homework, etc. It always had a reputation of being inconsistent from lot to lot, so who knows what it's like now.

 

Give it a try if you like 147s but you don't like to pay through the nose for N320.


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#152 Sweet T

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 02:53 PM

Sport Pistol makes all the other unicorn minor powders obsolete.

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#153 racetaco

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 06:18 PM

Sport Pistol is ok, but not life changing enough to pull me away from Green Dot.

#154 louu

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 06:01 AM

Anyone using clays for 147 9mm? I read on the Internet a lot that it's dangerous and has a sharp pressure curve so don't use it. I just read this whole thread and menphis mechanic was the only guy who mentioned it. 

 

I've been using Hp38 for a couple years now and I guess I'm happy with it but I'm getting low and it's time to stock back up or switch to something else. I have a good amount of clays that I never use. 

 

Also thanks guano for all that data, great write up. One thing I disagree with is Hp38 having reverse temp sensitivity, it gets really hot here in the summer and I noticed way more kick from Hp38 when it's hot especially once time I accidentally left my ammo in the sun. Holy shit I almost though the slide was going to break off. I'm not calling you a liar bud I know you got the results you got, maybe I have a different batch or something.



#155 GuanoLoco

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 07:32 AM

Here is the shizzle: CSB-1M

https://hi-techammo....th-loading-data

This is a small flake version of CSB-1, formerly rebranded and resold as ETR-7 (from the ill-fated Expansion Industries).

It is, no lie, the finest 9mm pistol powder I have had a chance to work with. And the price is right.

Short version: Fast Powder, Meters Well, Good Fill Volume, Temperature Stable, Burns Clean, Great Price.
Availability - Just Hi-Tech Ammo - for now.

I have no reservations about this powder.

My last load workup:
124gr ACME New Nose Profile polymer coated, < 1.130 COAL, 3.8 gr CSB-1M, 128 Power Factor
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#156 Desk Pop

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 11:51 PM

GuanoLoco

 

Hmm....  My last loading of ETR-7 for ACME 147gr / 1.087 oal / 3.5gr ETR-7 / was 880fps/129pf / WTF?  Your 124gr is not much off.

 

BTW, I just found 16 lbs of ETR in the "locker".   Next training class mebbie?



#157 GuanoLoco

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 07:34 AM

I’d take it.
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#158 GuanoLoco

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 08:52 AM

GuanoLoco
 
Hmm....  My last loading of ETR-7 for ACME 147gr / 1.087 oal / 3.5gr ETR-7 / was 880fps/129pf / WTF?  Your 124gr is not much off.
 
BTW, I just found 16 lbs of ETR in the "locker".   Next training class mebbie?


Also, that was 3.7gr with 135gr boolits, not 124’s, and IIRC I have been reducing the charge weight by 0.1-0.2gr in more recent sessions without compromising the margin over 125PF. Not in a position to check latest load level.
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#159 Stubb

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 08:45 AM

Anyone tried Winclean 244 with coated bullets? I'm cracking open my last 8# jug of Sport Pistol, looking around for more, and it's of course sold out everywhere.

 

Sweet T is correct that Sport Pistol makes all the other unicorn minor powders obsolete. But it's evidently turned into a unicorn minor powder itself.

 

GL's CSB-1M is of course another options.



#160 racetaco

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 03:31 PM

I’d also be interested in a review or Win 244, I’ve seen a few advertisement but none on shelves.




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