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coach/lineage/school effect?


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#21 Miculek is a Noob

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 01:03 PM

However, BJ Norris was just a local kid in VA-MD with some raw talent until Todd got ahold of him.


That sounds dirty.
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#22 GuanoLoco

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 03:25 PM

Thats the method Im using. I bought an expensive ass open gun so I can make GM this year. This cadillac open gun will shoot the course itself all I have to do is enjoy the ride... At least thats what they told me when I put my money up for it.....

 

In 18-36 months you will no doubt find out.


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#23 shmella

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 04:51 PM

In 18-36 months you will no doubt find out.

I went atlas, it's in my hands. Took longer than the estimated lead time but still got a full custom in less than 4 months. The journey begins
Edit: actually it took 18 weeks.

#24 Bikerburgess

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 11:49 PM

I went to Ben's class to learn what I'm doing wrong, and what the route would be to work from B up to M should I choose to do so.

I haven't chosen to put that work in yet - life is full of other things I'm investing my time into - and so I'm hovering .05% short of A class several months later.

I will say that I left his class knowing that I wasn't nearly as good as I thought I was, and exactly why. To me, that's worth the money. At some point after years in the sport we all plateau, and I know exactly the reasons I'm sitting on the B-class one, now.

That makes it much less frustrating to be here. I know it's due to a lack of proper practice, so I'm not the frustrated guy who sees M-class as something impossible to attain because no matter what he does he cannot exit _____ class.

I took one of Ben's classes a couple years ago for the same reason, to verify I knew what I sucked at.


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#25 bailey

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 03:57 AM

Those poor dumbfucks. The way to become a champion is by buying the right gear.

 

Almost.....you have to buy the right gear and then put a bunch of aftermarket parts in it. Everybody knows that manufacturers don't sell the best stuff 'cause then their sponsored shooters would have no advantage over everybody else. I'm always depressed to find out the sponsored shooters have a bunch of aftermarket stuff too. I fail to understand why the manufacturers just don't hire the aftermarket guys.

 

Where do I sign up for that finishing school that will make me a good person? Maybe we could fill a private class.



#26 BenB

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 04:28 PM

What would be interesting to see is one of the greats, Todd, Robby, or Jerry start a school. "Want to be a contender? Come study with me for 6 months or 2 years."

 

The question is why isn't that happening? Sponsor commitments? Keeping sharp doesn't lend itself to teaching full time? Why don't we see the AMU hiring someone like Max or Travis to be the instructor emeritus? Money? 

 

Before the UFC did BJJ guys have to travel around to teach weekend classes and now they can stay home and have people come to them? Is that the issue? The sport is just too small so the instructor does weekend classes and nobody sets up their own dojo?

 

I feel like there has to be at least a handful of people that would move to Arizona and train 7 days a week with Robbie and try to make a  run at it. 

 

Maybe sustained instructor feedback just isn't that helpful. Maybe the once a year booster shot of a class is enough and the rest you have to do on your own. That would certainly be consistent with the observed reality.


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#27 busdriver

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 05:23 PM

There's no UFC equivalent in shooting.  There is no "show" to make it big. 


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#28 Peally

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 07:33 PM

Who in their right mind would do that? There's a sum total of 0 dollars and 3 cents in glory when you become a destroyer in USPSA.
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#29 beerbaron

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 11:35 PM

You can't compare shooting to main stream sports or even curiosity sports.

I would compare it to skateboarding but even that has way more media $, sponsor $ and mainstream appeal complete with cross promotional opportunities.

We are on the absolute fringe of the fringe. Most people think 'gun enthusiasts' are at best quirky and at worst a shooting tragedy waiting to happen.

The ONLY companies who put any money into the sport are those who live off the sport (i.e. Gear makers and gun makers). That is not enough for the big pay days.

There are other reasons but that's the main one.

Any promising young athlete is going to go to basketball, tennis, golf, whatever. Shooting wouldn't even get onto the 'career options' list.
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#30 IronArcher

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:46 AM

Ben readily admits he didn't just start shooting and got good.
He read books, he gained knowledge and put it to use.

I have a couple of Ben's books and DVDs.
I took his class to accelerate the process based on my limited ability to get in live fire practice.
Everything has shown results. The books, the DVDs, and the class.
At the class he said that he can't make you much better in 2 day, but he can show you what you need to do to get better faster.

Going to a class is not the same as being trained by someone.
Most are not trained and/or coached. We train ourselves. The classes/books etc give us a curriculum, not an instructor or coach.


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#31 dravz

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 12:43 PM

Who in their right mind would do that? There's a sum total of 0 dollars and 3 cents in glory when you become a destroyer in USPSA.

 

I would do it

 

with Ben

 

 

 

 

two times



#32 StrongHandOnly

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 05:26 PM

Greater than 80% of the Production National titles the last six years have gone to personnel who attended several of Ben's classes.

Stats are pretty clear!


How much of a difference did Ben make? Maybe he shortened the learning curve a little? Maybe he boosted self confidence ( which is fucking huge when going balls to the wall ). I am guessing classes from pro shooters make 5% or less of a difference. I will always be B class cause that's all the effort I can afford to give, given my god given physical ability. People become super squaders because they put in the work and have god given ability.


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#33 StrongHandOnly

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 05:31 PM

I think of top level shooters as people who are driven. Much like people with an uncontrollable mental illness.


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#34 Just Some Random Hoser

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 04:00 AM

Judging by what I've seen "it" is simply a desire to actually be good versus wanting to piss away $200 on fantasy camp.

Practice......

You don't get good by wanting to or wishing or hope.....you have to practice.

All the champions will tell you make a training plan, make definable goals and its a process.

Most folks shooting don't have a plans and never practice, make a training plan, stick to it and train to reach a well defined specified goal.

INHO...



#35 Just Some Random Hoser

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 04:05 AM

The biggest effect I see is being in the AMU gets you gooder. Wish I got into shooting earlier and could have done that. The finishing school for how to act like a good person would have been something useful. That and the bajillion rounds of ammo, good coaching, and the free matches and travel. Oh, and the networking! 

 

That's pretty much the only shooting school I wish I could have gone to.

A very good point most people don't realize!



#36 Just Some Random Hoser

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 04:11 AM

Almost.....you have to buy the right gear and then put a bunch of aftermarket parts in it. Everybody knows that manufacturers don't sell the best stuff 'cause then their sponsored shooters would have no advantage over everybody else. I'm always depressed to find out the sponsored shooters have a bunch of aftermarket stuff too. I fail to understand why the manufacturers just don't hire the aftermarket guys.

 

Where do I sign up for that finishing school that will make me a good person? Maybe we could fill a private class.

US ARMY.

Tell the recruiter you want to become either a Cavalry Scout or Combat Medic.....either one of those MOSs (Military Occupational Speciality) will quickly humble you.

One a side note....I once saw a medic jump his PC after he went through a ditch as fast as he could trying to get to a wounded Soldier....



#37 Eiffel

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:08 AM

What would be interesting to see is one of the greats, Todd, Robby, or Jerry start a school. "Want to be a contender? Come study with me for 6 months or 2 years."

 

The question is why isn't that happening? Sponsor commitments? Keeping sharp doesn't lend itself to teaching full time? Why don't we see the AMU hiring someone like Max or Travis to be the instructor emeritus? Money? 

 

Before the UFC did BJJ guys have to travel around to teach weekend classes and now they can stay home and have people come to them? Is that the issue? The sport is just too small so the instructor does weekend classes and nobody sets up their own dojo?

 

I feel like there has to be at least a handful of people that would move to Arizona and train 7 days a week with Robbie and try to make a  run at it. 

 

Maybe sustained instructor feedback just isn't that helpful. Maybe the once a year booster shot of a class is enough and the rest you have to do on your own. That would certainly be consistent with the observed reality.

Frankly there's no money in it. Those guys can make twice as much money and infinitely more coolguy points doing weeklong contract classes teaching marksmanship to cops and SOF guys. The startup costs of building a school are pretty real and there's no real market for that stuff amongst competitive shooters. Universal Shooting Academy in Florida is probably the closest thing but I suspect they make the majority of their money teaching classes to LE or military. Don't know about Jarrett, but Jerry Miculek and Rob Leatham are both known to teach for govt. contracts from time to time. Jerry Barnhart I think is still doing exclusively military or LE training. John Shaw at MidSouth has his school for military and LE training, I think his son is doing a lot of that but also some open enrollment stuff, similar to Universal Shooting Academy. The Rogers Shooting School is similar, a lot of mil/LE training as well.

 

Pre-UFC a lot of BJJ guys taught in garages or in janky ass settings. BJJ also has much more mainstream appeal than USPSA, due to self-defense/confidence-boosting/fitness considerations.

 

Second, I don't believe the current level of practical shooting is sufficiently competitive (unlike, say, pro football) to justify weeklong coaching for months on end. At the end of the day a guy with reasonably strong grip and averagely dextrous hands can make himself a pretty good shooter, if he is willing to do the work. I don't think there's anyone out there right now who can push someone from "pretty good" to "world-class" based off their technical instruction. It's not like football or something where the coach is picking out tiny details you'd never notice. 


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#38 Nimrod

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:54 PM

No where near enough money for the winners.

But Frank @ USA tried that for a while before he hired a greenskeeper. 



#39 AniTNe5

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 02:00 AM

Я знаю, очень у многих людей есть близкие,
друзья у которых есть проблемы с алкогольной
или наркотической зависимостью.
Центр реабилитации наркозависимых
Рефреш (Refresh) в Киеве поможет вам

Лечение наркозависимости-Центр реабилитации Рефреш

#40 GuanoLoco

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 05:34 AM

Our future IPSC President has spoken!

All hail Vitaly!
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