Jump to content


Photo

April BOD minutes


  • Please log in to reply
461 replies to this topic

#1 redrider

redrider

    lolcow

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 378 posts

Posted 25 April 2017 - 11:28 AM

Interesting that there seems to be a very strong feeling that something needs to be done with Production, especially its rules but to do it in a way that doesn't mess it up.

 

From the minutes, ", Interpretations, Rule Changes, Enforcability of Equipment Rules, Ignorance of competitors and RO's ". (emphasis mine)

 

And they're right, it is a successful division so they should tread carefully. Just defining success by numbers they generated Jan 21, 2017 for review of the year 2016 Prod only have 27, yep just 27 fewer people classified in the division than Limited which had the most.

 

And as for total activity in 2016 Limited is first with 32.6% and Prod is second with 27.5% and the rest not even close.

 

You can see the whole item below.

Attached Files



#2 Flexmoney

Flexmoney

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,764 posts

Posted 25 April 2017 - 11:36 AM

Here come the trigger limits that favor double action guns (like IPsee).   :rolleyes:


Unless otherwise noted, expect that all my posting here is in true Doodie fashion.  If my post somehow upsets your sensibilities, well...there ya go.  


#3 Peally

Peally

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,855 posts
  • LocationWisconsin, USA

Posted 25 April 2017 - 11:54 AM

There will always be ignorance in all divisions of shooting sports. People myself included don't really read the rulebook beyond the basics that directly affect them.



#4 SME at Pistol Forum

SME at Pistol Forum

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 221 posts

Posted 25 April 2017 - 12:19 PM

I'd like to see Apex triggers since the outside doesn't change the inside which is already often changed on OFM using OFM parts.

Pistol Forum Subject Matter Expert...  Which pretty much equals B class at Doodie Project


#5 Ben

Ben

    MFCEO

  • Administrators
  • 2,269 posts

Posted 25 April 2017 - 02:41 PM

Troy does have a point about people not understanding the rules. A look at his latest ruling clearly demonstrates that he would be inlcuded.

​I am not surprised the BOD is looking at fucking with production. It is working well as it is so clearly it needs to be fixed.


  • SlivGod, Stubb, warpspeed and 8 others like this

#6 RockOutGLOCKOut

RockOutGLOCKOut

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 561 posts
  • LocationA5

Posted 25 April 2017 - 03:31 PM

I thought I understood the rules before.... now not so much.


I like my Glocks like I like my women; 19 and in my pants.


#7 Strick

Strick

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 119 posts

Posted 25 April 2017 - 03:36 PM

I see the point they are making though.  To follow the rules as they are now, every MD and Chrono RO will have to know every part of every Prod gun.  They have to know what parts are legal and which are not, that is a lot of parts and a lot guns.  Compound that with factory, semi-factory, factory specials, etc... and it is a real mess.  Just like proving that I am not using a 17 frame with a 34 slide, that is not legal but how do you prove I am legal or not?

 

I have never seen these rules really enforced or guns even inspected at any match I have shot.  I can only recall one match where the gun was weighed and that was after a shit fit was thrown about a certain Taurus.  



#8 GuanoLoco

GuanoLoco

    Minister of Culture

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,245 posts
  • LocationMy Safe Space

Posted 25 April 2017 - 03:41 PM

Area 6 '16 weighed my Production gun (Stock 2) and tried to bump me to open for being overweight.  Well, at least until I pointed out that I was shooting Production not Single Stack.  ;)

 

GA State DQ'd a guy for an aftermarket hammer.

 

Area 6 '17 was weighing Production Guns.  

 

How much enforcement do we need/want?


Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Doodie Project?

You'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

In Doodie, Veritas.

"You might be a little thin-skinned for this forum". -Scott.

#9 Ben

Ben

    MFCEO

  • Administrators
  • 2,269 posts

Posted 25 April 2017 - 03:44 PM

 

How much enforcement do we need/want?

​The current system is: Run an illegal gun and you risk getting caught by someone that knows what they are looking at. That seems to be enough of a deterrent.


  • NickBlasta likes this

#10 redrider

redrider

    lolcow

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 378 posts

Posted 25 April 2017 - 03:50 PM

A direct quote I heard at A6 from Troy, "CZ is a f^$&*ng headache for me. This model, that model. Have you looked to see how room it takes to put all their s#!t on the Production gun list?"

 

Early Shadow 2 adopters, keep waiting. But yeah, there does seem to be an undercurrent of "something's gotta be done about Production rules", to me as it applies to the guns. Not how we shoot it, not our belts and gear but the item itself.

 

Abolish the list and weights and make a different set of criteria?


  • peterthefish likes this

#11 Sweet T

Sweet T

    Glock Master Race

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,693 posts

Posted 25 April 2017 - 03:52 PM

Sigh

 


  • Ben likes this

#12 not that bryan

not that bryan

    Fuckstick

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,876 posts

Posted 25 April 2017 - 04:08 PM

​The current system is: Run an illegal gun and you risk getting caught by someone that knows what they are looking at. That seems to be enough of a deterrent.


Ok. It's been a while since I've posted here.

1. I AM THAT GUY. I keep up with the rules and the common guns. I know what the hammer should look like on a production legal CZ. It's not hard, there were only 2 options available before this most recent retarded ruling.

2. I am the RO who bumped the guy to open at GA State last year. I'm pretty sure that guy is who complained to Troy to get this ruling.
When I bumped him to open, his response was that he had shot Nationals with that gun. Cajun gun works specifically listed their hammer as being NOT production legal.
Secondly, that dude was already getting bumped to open because his gun and mags were both WAY in front of his hips. That's why I saw the hammer. I was looking at where his gun was on his hips and noticed the hammer.

The old rules were clear, external mods were a no go and the shooter is responsible for showing that a questioned external part is legal.

This new ruling is fucked because it ignores and contradicts the clear wording of the rule book.

If the BOD, NROI, and Foley want to change the rules then do it properly. Don't circumvent the rules by creating a ruling that does whatever they want. That's how Pinto does things in IPSC.
  • Ben, SlivGod, foofighter and 10 others like this

#13 not that bryan

not that bryan

    Fuckstick

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,876 posts

Posted 25 April 2017 - 04:14 PM

Seriously email NROI, Foley, the BOD, and your AD and tell them they need to

1. Stop messing with the production rules

2. If they want to change the rules then do so using the process for rule changes. Issuing rulings that contradict / conflict with the rulebook's clear wording is a disservice to all uspsa shooters.
  • Flexmoney and StrongHandOnly like this

#14 Ben

Ben

    MFCEO

  • Administrators
  • 2,269 posts

Posted 25 April 2017 - 04:15 PM

Seriously email NROI, Foley, the BOD, and your AD and tell them they

1. Stop messing with the production rules

2. If they want to change the rules then do so using the process for rule changes. Issuing rulings that contradict / conflict with the rulebook's clear wording is a disservice to all uspsa shooters.


​To be 100% honest, you will get better results by talking shit on social media.


  • B_Seehawer, Nimrod, Alfred Salveti and 2 others like this

#15 Sweet T

Sweet T

    Glock Master Race

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,693 posts

Posted 25 April 2017 - 04:19 PM

If enforcement of the production equipment ruleset is so onerous that it's impractical to enforce them (I don't accept that premise in the first place-see Bryan's comment above), then (if anything) they should be made more exclusionary, rather than opening Pandora's box of aftermarket doo-dads.

 

You must run the hammer that came on the gun (the one it was PRODUCED with- get it?)



#16 Trigger Warning

Trigger Warning

    That's What She Said

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,503 posts
  • LocationRaleighwood

Posted 25 April 2017 - 04:23 PM

In this age of digital rulebooks and virtual range lawyers, would it be impossible to not only name each approved model but also include an image of it for the curious RO or backstabbing asshole squadmate who is hoping to knife a superior shooter?  And in this, avoid production becoming ghetto limited.


On injured reserve.


#17 Peally

Peally

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,855 posts
  • LocationWisconsin, USA

Posted 25 April 2017 - 04:30 PM

Stupid ruling just needs to be reversed

#18 Mr_White

Mr_White

    Junk Carry SME

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,642 posts

Posted 25 April 2017 - 04:42 PM

Ignorance of competitors

 

Guilty!
9254418645_6df4042018.jpg

"Conscience is our guide, peace is our shelter, beauty and perfection is our life."- Bruce Leroy

http://www.gabewhitetraining.com

#19 GuanoLoco

GuanoLoco

    Minister of Culture

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,245 posts
  • LocationMy Safe Space

Posted 25 April 2017 - 05:10 PM

I was looking at where his gun was on his hips and noticed the hammer.

 

I saw you.  If you looked at my hips like that I'd show you my hammer too.


  • Stubb, peterthefish, Not Will and 1 other like this
Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Doodie Project?

You'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

In Doodie, Veritas.

"You might be a little thin-skinned for this forum". -Scott.

#20 GuanoLoco

GuanoLoco

    Minister of Culture

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,245 posts
  • LocationMy Safe Space

Posted 25 April 2017 - 05:15 PM

When I bumped him to open, his response was that he had shot Nationals with that gun. 

 

Under the Doctrine of Precedence, a precedent has therefore been established.  It must now be legal and properly codified in the ad-hoc rulings by our official rules interpreter and scribe, Troy.  

 

Then again, maybe you would be happier in IDPA.


Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Doodie Project?

You'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

In Doodie, Veritas.

"You might be a little thin-skinned for this forum". -Scott.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users