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#41 Crash

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 10:24 AM

What RO's can you really expect to keep up with a list of approved guns and check every gun that comes across chrono against said list?  Like others have said.  If it fits the box, makes weight, doesn't have a dot/comp then let it run.  

At A6 there was one bay where the RO calling order would state out loud the competitors division to the other RO's....and thats the first time I have seen that.  Perhaps they do that at nationals but I wouldn't know. 

 

If the gun makes weight and is within legal dimensions, wtf difference does it matter what hammer is in it?  Im pretty sure no one is winning based on the hammer in their gun.  



#42 redrider

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 10:30 AM

A bay at A1 this year did that as well. I asked why and they said it was so others could count shots and look at your gear placement while you were shooting the stage. And double check again that you were in the pad or on paper as the right division.


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#43 Michel Neaucheutte

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 11:21 AM

A bay at A1 this year did that as well. I asked why and they said it was so others could count shots and look at your gear placement while you were shooting the stage. And double check again that you were in the pad or on paper as the right division.

 

I took the RO seminar earlier this month, and the instructor told us that was a best practice (scorekeeping RO calling out division for each shooter) for exactly those reasons. Also, the gear check is "every stage, all the time." Maybe the long-rumored USPSA app will be able to scan your gear, detect your iliac crest, and auto-bump you to Open.



#44 Suck It Trebek

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 11:51 AM

lol

But there is the double edged sword.  If it is unbalanced now with the plastic striker guns against steel unicorns, then pretending that these are stock guns is an absurdity, and a dis-service to the idea that this is where stock guns play.  If there is no big difference between a plain black Glock and a Super XTREME Stock 2 dipped in pure Grauffelium, then let people go full retard with their Dremel tools.  Mill out slides, flat top, tri-top, replace every part on the gun, stipple anything, undercut, double-undercut, take finger groves off, add ribs for her pleasure, just no optics, no comps, no ported barrel, and it has to fit the box and make weight.


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#45 Peally

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 12:18 PM

So basically L10 minor



#46 Motosapiens

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 12:25 PM

So basically L10 minor

but with a box, and a list. i think it would be fine. Perhaps the people that bought custom tanfo production race guns will be sad, but those guns really made a complete joke of the division.


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#47 Sad Sack

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 12:45 PM

Perhaps the people that bought custom tanfo production race guns will be sad, but those guns really made a complete joke of the division.

 

USPSA made a complete joke of the division - from its inception.  Don't blame it on Tanfo or CZ.  They wouldn't be selling their "production race guns" if DNROI wasn't a soup sandwich.  


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#48 aceinyerface

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 12:51 PM

USPSA made a complete joke of the division - from its inception.  Don't blame it on Tanfo or CZ.  They wouldn't be selling their "production race guns" if DNROI wasn't a soup sandwich.  

 

Don't pretend it is just the DNROI, IPSC fucked the chicken making DA/SA guns preferable, too.


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#49 Motosapiens

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 12:53 PM

USPSA made a complete joke of the division - from its inception.  Don't blame it on Tanfo or CZ.  They wouldn't be selling their "production race guns" if DNROI wasn't a soup sandwich.  

I'm not so sure. It seems to me that any attempt to limit aftermarket modifications based on appearance is almost certain to resort in small batches of custom race guns that bear no resemblance to actual duty/carry pistols.


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#50 MilkMyDuds

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 02:32 PM

What if USPSA starts trigger gauging Production guns like IPSC does?  

 

I bet then people will not pay much, if any at all, attention to all the other borderline mods.  Besides minor vs. major, trigger and mag capacity are probably the biggest differentiators between Prod and Limited.

 

Make all striker pull > 3lbs, DA pull > 5lbs and SA pull > 2 lbs.  

 

Very easy to enforce with a trigger gauge. 



#51 peterthefish

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 02:59 PM

Very easy to enforce with a trigger gauge.


Have you used a trigger gauge? Do you get the same reading every time?
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#52 aceinyerface

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 03:10 PM

Have you used a trigger gauge? Do you get the same reading every time?

 

Based upon how brutish I am with it, I can get a variance of several lbs.



#53 JMate

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 03:17 PM

Have you used a trigger gauge? Do you get the same reading every time?


That's why IPSC doesn't use a gauge
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#54 SME at Pistol Forum

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 03:30 PM

At this point, I'm with making Production L-10 Minor. But USPSA won't do that because it makes too much sense and would make them look bad.

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#55 GuanoLoco

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 03:32 PM

That's why IPSC doesn't use a gauge

 

What do they use, weights?  That's what I improvised before I sprung for a Lyman gauge.


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#56 GuanoLoco

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 03:36 PM

But there is the double edged sword.  If it is unbalanced now with the plastic striker guns against steel unicorns, then pretending that these are stock guns is an absurdity, and a dis-service to the idea that this is where stock guns play.  If there is no big difference between a plain black Glock and a Super XTREME Stock 2 dipped in pure Grauffelium, then let people go full retard with their Dremel tools.  Mill out slides, flat top, tri-top, replace every part on the gun, stipple anything, undercut, double-undercut, take finger groves off, add ribs for her pleasure, just no optics, no comps, no ported barrel, and it has to fit the box and make weight.

 

No one with an once of competitiveness is running a stock Glock in Production.

 

You can jigger up a plastic striker gun trigger pretty good without external mods, especially if you pre-load the striker - I believe this is what is happening with Walthers.

 

Manufacturers are free to create heavy all steel striker guns any time they want,  Weight becomes a non-issue.  Hudson, anyone?


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#57 redrider

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 03:40 PM

What to they use, weights?  That's what I improvised before I sprung for a Lyman gauge.

Yes, that's exactly what they do. Weights equal to the tested for poundage on the end of a hook. Can you pick it up hanging off the trigger or does it break?



#58 aceinyerface

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 03:45 PM

No one with an once of competitiveness is running a stock Glock in Production.

 

You can jigger up a plastic striker gun trigger pretty good without external mods, especially if you pre-load the striker - I believe this is what is happening with Walthers.

 

Manufacturers are free to create heavy all steel striker guns any time they want,  Weight becomes a non-issue.  Hudson, any

 

Vogel, Nils, Coley, those guys are usually a cunt hair from winning it all.


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#59 Motosapiens

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 04:21 PM

 Besides minor vs. major, trigger and mag capacity are probably the biggest differentiators between Prod and Limited.

 

Make all striker pull > 3lbs, DA pull > 5lbs and SA pull > 2 lbs.  

 

i'm not convinced that a 2011 (or 1911) trigger is any better than the SA on a good tanfo or cz. I have always shot the same scores with my cajun-ized cz as with my nicely worked over 1911.


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#60 Motosapiens

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 04:23 PM

No one with an once of competitiveness is running a stock Glock in Production.

 

I suspect that no one with an ounce of competitiveness is running a stock *anything* in production. Lots of competitive people are running lightly worked over striker guns however. Anyone with a striker gun and $100 can tweak it so the gun isn't holding him back from being competitive. Sure, lots of people like to do other stuff to their guns for personal preference reasons, but I don't think that's a bad thing.


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