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Area 5 Arb


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#81 Nimrod

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 06:06 PM

I think most normal human beings would have done what Mason did. See person in your way, stop because safety/commonsense. All of the "run through them like a freight train until you fall on your face!" is retarded. Interference for sure, no doubt about it.

Drama queen. He is a frequent conversation piece after matches. Meh. 


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#82 Motosapiens

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 06:09 PM

It's a start. I would like to reaffirm my faith in pres foley and troy. It's easy to be a howler monkey and complain about everything. It's more satisfying for everyone to get involved in solving the problems. This one is going to need more work, but I look forward to helping solve it.

 

But if one of you whiny bitches tries to arb one of my calls at nats, I'll just send my cousin vinnie to break your legs, see.....


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#83 MilkMyDuds

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 08:25 PM

If someone stays downrange relative to the competitor while the competitor shoots the stage, should the competitor be DQed?  I guess not, right?  We all have seen videos of someone taping targets downrange while the shooter was shooting the stage. 

 

If so, the argument that the shooter will be DQed for running past ROs and resulting in sweepping the ROs is not valid.   The RO's should be DQed if they cannot stay up range relative to the competitor.  The shooters already have to be careful not break 180.  It's not the shooters responsibility to make sure others are not down range.  Rather it's the RO's responsibilities. 



#84 peterthefish

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 09:26 PM

If someone stays downrange relative to the competitor while the competitor shoots the stage, should the competitor be DQed?.


Sweeping RO = DQ even if dumbfuck RO gets his ass downrange. There's also consideration of whether or not it's a good idea to get uprange of the RO regardless of your ability to not sweep them.

#85 beerbaron

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 11:15 PM

Sweeping RO = DQ even if dumbfuck RO gets his ass downrange. There's also consideration of whether or not it's a good idea to get uprange of the RO regardless of your ability to not sweep them.


No fucking way.

If the ro is where he's supposed to be (ie always uprange of the shooter) it's impossible for the shooter to sweep him without also breaching the 180. That's a dq.

If the ro fucks up and gets inside the 180 OR fails to move out of the way of a retreating shooter then he should call STOP as soon as it's clear he's either impeding the shooter, about to impede the shooter or about to be swept. If he's slow on the call and gets swept that's on the RO not on the competitor. Providing as I said the competitor is not breaching 180 or some other rule.

#86 Doc

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 07:23 AM

No fucking way.

If the ro is where he's supposed to be (ie always uprange of the shooter) it's impossible for the shooter to sweep him without also breaching the 180. That's a dq.

If the ro fucks up and gets inside the 180 OR fails to move out of the way of a retreating shooter then he should call STOP as soon as it's clear he's either impeding the shooter, about to impede the shooter or about to be swept. If he's slow on the call and gets swept that's on the RO not on the competitor. Providing as I said the competitor is not breaching 180 or some other rule.



This.

The competitor is NOT responsible for the actions or inactions of the RO. Those are beyond his control by definition.

If a competitor is retreating and the RO can't keep up and out of the way, it's on the RO to call STOP just as BB says here. Any sweeping that occurred during such an incident would have to be handled on a case by case basis.

The salient question here does hinge on the 180.

If the RO is swept uprange of the 180: DQ per several rules.
If the RO is swept without the 180 being broken: no DQ, that's on the RO - he's out of position and that's a reshoot.
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#87 ron169

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 09:39 AM

Someone please provide the rule that says it's the ROs fault for being down range and getting swept

Also, I agree it should be on the RO, but that doesn't change the fact that there is no rule stating it

#88 Flexmoney

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 09:44 AM

I have an answer.
 
Might as well just shoot the activating popper from the outside shooting area and chew 1 procedural then finish shooting.
 
So don't go back to the port to shoot the popper when your ROs and videographers are behind you. but he can go forward outside the shooting area then either shoot the popper from minimum of 7 yards far or soccer-kick the popper.


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#89 Doc

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 05:05 PM

Someone please provide the rule that says it's the ROs fault for being down range and getting swept
Also, I agree it should be on the RO, but that doesn't change the fact that there is no rule stating it


While they are at it, perhaps they can please provide the rule that says it's the competitor's fault that any time after 'make ready', the RO ended up down range...

We actually don't have rules that cover everything. That just leaves our common sense and critical thinking skills.

Yeah, I know. We're fucked.
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#90 NickBlasta

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 05:12 PM

Sweeping RO = DQ even if dumbfuck RO gets his ass downrange. There's also consideration of whether or not it's a good idea to get uprange of the RO regardless of your ability to not sweep them.

 

There's no DQ rule for sweeping the RO. The DQs for sweeping cover the competitor and no one else, ostensibly because there won't be anyone downrange of the competitor, but...



#91 Ben

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 07:37 PM

There is very little about the arb rules now that hinders a fair minded group from making the right call.

​Rewriting the rules to compel slack jawed dipshits to use their brains and do the right thing is a pretty tough task.


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#92 beerbaron

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 07:43 PM

Someone please provide the rule that says it's the ROs fault for being down range and getting swept

Also, I agree it should be on the RO, but that doesn't change the fact that there is no rule stating it


You don't need one. The moment the ro gets inside the 180 he is interfering with the shooters attempt at the cof. At that point the ro must call stop and order reshoot. If he doesn't do so anything that occurs after that is on the ro's failure.

As doc said we don't have rules for every possible scenario but that doesn't mean we can't deal with them fairly and consistently.

#93 RockOutGLOCKOut

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 10:26 AM

There is very little about the arb rules now that hinders a fair minded group from making the right call.

​Rewriting the rules to compel slack jawed dipshits to use their brains and do the right thing is a pretty tough task.


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#94 JoeyBagODonuts

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 02:43 PM

.


Wait, I smell more than donuts...


#95 jay

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 07:09 PM

There's no DQ rule for sweeping the RO. The DQs for sweeping cover the competitor and no one else, ostensibly because there won't be anyone downrange of the competitor, but..

Here is the definition of sweeping.

Sweeping...................... Pointing the muzzle of a firearm at any part of any person’s body.



#96 NickBlasta

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 07:40 PM

Here is the definition of sweeping.

Sweeping...................... Pointing the muzzle of a firearm at any part of any person’s body.

 

Now look what 10.5.5 says.



#97 jay

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 07:42 PM

Now look what 10.5.5 says.

I know what it says,


You think a shooter can point a gun at someone and it isn't sweeping or a DQ?



#98 NickBlasta

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 07:51 PM

I know what it says,


You think a shooter can point a gun at someone and it isn't sweeping or a DQ?

 

Yes? Because the RO shouldn't be in a position where you can sweep your gun over him and not have it be a different DQ (ie, 180). And the position of the RO isn't something you can control. I would think that you wouldn't have an RO standing between you and a target but if you transitioned between arrays and he was there unexpectedly is that your fault or the RO's?

 

But either way somehow things have been safe enough without having it as a rule. Might as well have '10.5.18 Competitor shot a squadmate or match staff'



#99 jay

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 08:01 PM

they can arbitrate the DQ.



#100 aceinyerface

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 08:12 PM

An RO out of position doesn't mean you have to point a gun at him.

This is a "2 wrongs don't make a right" thing.

trip to Dairy Queen, no question.

the fact that we have shooters where this is even a question in their brain disturbs me.
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