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One Division for Irons


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#21 slemmo

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 05:21 AM

Production shooters think that removing major is ok, standard major shooters obviously dont agree. Shooting minor is fucking boring, it takes away everything that's fun about practical shooting. Speed, flow,  shooting on the move...


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#22 Nimrod

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 05:27 AM

Huh? 

Minor only takes those things away if you cant hit A's. 

 

Never going to combine the divisions because that removes the opportunity for sponsored shooters to jump to a division where they may actually have a better chance of placing. 



#23 Bjorn

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 06:03 AM

Never going to combine the divisions because that removes the opportunity for sponsored shooters to jump to a division where they may actually have a better chance of placing. 

 

Yes, hiders will jump divisions. You should have seen the guys who moved to Classic when Eric G. announced that he would shoot Standard. IMO an extra reason to combine them. Let the hiders flee to Classic or Lady. 



#24 dansedgli

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 06:04 AM

What would the timmys and the noobs shoot if production was gone?

I dont get the fascination apart from cheaper ammo. Is there a 5lb trigger pull rule in uspsa?

Classic minor will phase out production eventually. 9mm goodness and nice triggers.

#25 Bjorn

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 06:13 AM

What would the timmys and the noobs shoot if production was gone?

I dont get the fascination apart from cheaper ammo. Is there a 5lb trigger pull rule in uspsa?

Classic minor will phase out production eventually. 9mm goodness and nice triggers.

Timmies and noobs get raped in either division, so that's still a non-issue.

 

There is almost no fascination for PD besides cheaper ammo. And less of a hustle with brass being free. No pickups, no buying. 

 

There is no 5lbs. trigger rule in USPSA. 

 

Classic is more reloads, more mag cleaning, expensive guns and 1911s only. All that sucks in the eyes of some people. 



#26 Peally

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 06:45 AM

The reality is that people like to work on their guns

 

I sure as shit don't. It took me a year just to get around to replacing my stock sights with something competent.

 

People that enjoy reloading and tinkering with guns are alien to me. That crap burns time I could be using to do something actually fun.


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#27 Fishyjoe

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 07:44 AM

Production is the gateway drug of choice. Most have a gun that can work in production in their safe already. You can buy affordable ammo off the shelf at Walmart. .40 caliber is ghey, 1911s are dumb, 2011s aren't available on the shelf at most local gun stores, and revolvers are retarded.

#28 GuanoLoco

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:28 AM

Production is the gateway drug of choice. Most have a gun that can work in production in their safe already. You can buy affordable ammo off the shelf at Walmart. .40 caliber is ghey, 1911s are dumb, 2011s aren't available on the shelf at most local gun stores, and revolvers are retarded.

 

Wrong.  

 

Lim (usually Minor) s the gateway drug in reality.  Load your (2-3) mags up, put your holster and mag pouches where ever you want and shoot.

 

Then figure out rules, divisions, etc.


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#29 Suck It Trebek

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 12:53 PM

Wrong.  

 

Lim (usually Minor) s the gateway drug in reality.  Load your (2-3) mags up, put your holster and mag pouched where ever you want and shoot.

 

Then figure out rules, divisions, etc.

 

Yep, most people new to action/practical shooting don't show up with enough mags and pouches to go from their iliac crest to their asshole, just so they can go to war on a plate rack.



#30 Fishyjoe

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 01:45 PM

Then they figure out two thing.

1. They aren't Mr. White
2. Mags and pouches are still cheaper than a new gat mags and pouches.

#31 Bjorn

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 02:25 AM

Wrong.  

 

Lim (usually Minor) s the gateway drug in reality.  Load your (2-3) mags up, put your holster and mag pouches where ever you want and shoot.

 

Then figure out rules, divisions, etc.

I agree. Most people start out with what they have in Limited/Standard. 

 

What sucks about that is that there is a point, once you go from a good shooter to a great shooter, where everything has to change. You will need to start shooting 40 to compete, so you will need a new gun, new reloading gear, need to start buying your brass and start crawling around to fetch it after training. I don't know that that's something people actually like, or if it is something they are just willing to accept in order to progress within the division they initially chose. 

 

So, it's either that or switch to Production and learn to deal with a new holster position (USPSA) and a DA trigger, or remove all the shit you did to your gun (and hope it is still PD legal after that). 



#32 slemmo

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 05:31 AM

Huh? 

Minor only takes those things away if you cant hit A's. 

 

Not sure I understand what you're talking about. Hitting the required amount of As to do good in prod takes longer time than achieving the same amount of hit factor in major.



#33 Bjorn

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 05:48 AM

Not sure I understand what you're talking about. Hitting the required amount of As to do good in prod takes longer time than achieving the same amount of hit factor in major.

 

This is theory, IMO. 

When you look at the results of the World Shoot, you will see that both divisions shoot the same amount of As, Cs, Ds and Ms.

It is still true however, that this will result in a higher HF for STD when compared to PD (because of major vs. minor scoring). Which is the argument for my point to make everything minor only (and also the reason nobody in STD shoots minor competitively at world level). 

 

Your point is valid only when you have major and minor shooters face each other in the same division. And even then, it will only fuck the minor shooter, since the major shooter is forced to shoot accurately against his major shooting competitors anyway (over whom he has no advantage).

 

So in a match with one guy shooting major, you are correct. 



#34 Perfecto

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:52 AM

and also the reason nobody in STD shoots minor competitively at world level

 

Since when did world level shooters become the norm? Did You forget what the V stands for in DVC?


~ Does Your lack of skill require a rifle in pistol matches? ~

 

 


#35 Bjorn

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:08 AM

Since when did world level shooters become the norm? Did You forget what the V stands for in DVC?

Not saying they're the norm. Although now that you mention it, I think they should be, since they hand us the data that shows what works and what doesn't. 

Watching some mid-level dude beat a bunch of other mid-level dudes with a 9mm, while the rest shoots .40 doesn't tell much. 

 

The V as in .45 > 9mm went out the window the moment Production was conceived, IMO.


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#36 beerbaron

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 03:39 AM

Everyone needs ammo mules that shoot prod as friends :P


As an open shooter I second that motion. :)

#37 Matt1

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 06:14 AM

As an open shooter I second that motion. :)


Would have come in handy for the trip home wouldn't it 🤦‍♂️


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#38 adoo

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 06:37 AM

I know a lot of euro shooters were happy to get a lot of good matchammo as the american sleft home from WS. 

We had 5-6 people driving cars down, they were even heavier with bullets and misc driving home :D :D 



#39 beerbaron

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 07:39 AM

I know a lot of euro shooters were happy to get a lot of good matchammo as the american sleft home from WS. 
We had 5-6 people driving cars down, they were even heavier with bullets and misc driving home :D :D


Lol, usually when we travel OS the experience is the check in dude asks "how much ammo do you have?" We then reply "Just under 5kg of course". They say "ok then" and we go on our merry way.

Not so leaving France. For some reason the emirates check in dude thinks he needs to weigh ammo (including box weight) and also check firearms (despite not being a customs agent or police officer and not being able to certify any export paperwork).

When he found I had 5.3kg he wanted me to get rid of some. Yeah easy, I'll just chuck it in the bin at an airport...smh. He kindly offered to take it from me though I wonder if he has a licence to posses it? My understanding was in France you cannot buy or posses handgun ammo without an appropriate licence... great plan, lets break out boxes of ammo and guns at the check in counter.. idiots. Of the few OS trips I've done their check in was the worst yet. Every airline check in dude has a different understanding of the rules. Most of them have no clue at all. The nice ones understand we know more about it than they do and take our friendly advice on the correct process. The others are a bit of a trial...

#40 adoo

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 11:01 AM

you should travel with "randomized french major airline" , at our checkin we said he we had guns.. he is like.. meeh so? we ask if he can tag them firearms.. hes like.. naaah we just consider it luggage.. long story short, we got all our firearms on regular luggage band, nothing was tagged. He never botherd checking anything or any paperwork. 

 

lots of airlines are ANAL about 5KG here. We traveld with 0KG ammo, just sent it home via car. 

no idea how the fook we gonna get ammo over to thailand though, gotto fly over 2-3 times and visit up front? 

 

ohh buddy shot classic major at worldshoot... + practice ammo for the bay, thats some KG's... 






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