Jump to content


Photo

The Tyranny of Cleaning Cases


  • Please log in to reply
58 replies to this topic

#41 racetaco

racetaco

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 501 posts
  • LocationMontana

Posted 24 November 2017 - 10:50 AM

I'd know if I have enough crayons to explain this to you but I'll give it a shot:
1. The "design flaw" of the 550 is the lack of an automatic index. It is an additional step the operator must perform that can induce a failure regardless of the skill of the operator - this is a fact not an opinion.
2. When your dumb ass assumed I got my information from b anus forum and so cutely "FIFY", I stated pretty clearly when I was learning to reload I produced the error and the gunsmith stated he sees lots of work coming from 550 owners that double charge cases.
3. The OP is "learning to reload on a 550" so I shared this info with him so he didn't make the same mistake.


Seriously? Lack of auto index is a design flaw? Operator error can't be blamed on anything other than the operator. Attention to detail and unfaltering methods are what's needed in reloading safely.
If it takes at a minimum the 650 to reload, guess I need GPS on my lawnmower so I don't run over the flower beds.
  • u sofa king we todd ed and ShootsLikeaDog like this

#42 GuanoLoco

GuanoLoco

    Minister of Culture

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,818 posts
  • LocationMy Safe Space

Posted 24 November 2017 - 11:07 AM

Wondering how much time the OP spent deciding on bullets out or bullets forward.

It probably hasn’t occured to him yet. Are you deliberately trying to start a cerebral meltdown?
  • Will, Beef and MEISTERB like this
Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Doodie Project?

You'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

In Doodie, Veritas.

"You might be a little thin-skinned for this forum". -Scott.

#43 Will

Will

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,388 posts

Posted 24 November 2017 - 11:23 AM

As an owner of a 550 and a 650, I can say the 650 produces better quality ammo with much less effort. It is also easier to put a powder check die on a 650 which is another layer of safety to prevent a double charge. I still use my 550 but only for brass preprocessing.

If you are a first time reloader, that extra step built into the machine in forwarding the shell plate is an extra opportunity for an error; it is not a factor when the machine automatically does this for you. Racetaco you've been reloading for a long time so this step of forwarding is automatic for you, the OP is a first time reloader on a 550.

To be clear, a 550 is not a piece of shit, but for an extra $179 the 650 is a better option.
  • racetaco likes this

#44 racetaco

racetaco

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 501 posts
  • LocationMontana

Posted 24 November 2017 - 01:34 PM

I would add to what Will said by stating the best way to start reloading is on a single stage press. Focusing on one step at a time learning what it takes to make quality ammo, plus it truly gives you a strong appreciation for progressive machines later on.
  • ralloway and Beef like this

#45 Fishyjoe

Fishyjoe

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 312 posts

Posted 24 November 2017 - 02:02 PM

Sorry to disagree again, but a single stage press is worthless in any action shooting scenario. Besides you can single stage the 550 until you get the hang of it. Which takes about 2 loading sessions if you’re a total retard. Less if your somewhat competent with finger banging anything.
  • StratRider likes this

#46 ShootsLikeaDog

ShootsLikeaDog

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 93 posts

Posted 24 November 2017 - 03:16 PM

In addition to the previously-described mouse-fart load @ 3.9 gr, also added a batch at 4.2 gr and a batch at 4.5 gr so that I could step up.  Even the 4.5 gr was a PF of 128.5 per manufacturer data, so not exactly stout.  Then I drove my happy ass to the range and shot them (out of my G19, natch) and I still have a face!

 

3.9 gr, as predicted, was really not enough to consistently run the slide.  4.2 gr was nice.  4.5 gr was totally fine, but not that far off the snappiness of my Freedom stuff, so I think I'll give 124s a try.  But even if felt recoil was exactly the same as the Freedom stuff, they were noticeably more accurate: I made one ragged hole at 7 yards without concentrating much at all, which I have never been able to do with the Freedom rounds.  And even using N320, it's still half the cost of the Freedom stuff.  Might be squeeing like a Japanese schoolgirl right now.

 

Did have one failure to fire out of 33 rounds.  Trigger went click, no bang.  Racked the slide, retrieved the offender, and saw an indent on the primer, but it didn't go bang.  Tried it again with the same result.  Doubt the primer (Federal small magnum pistol) was at fault, so I assume I fucked up by not seating it deep enough?

 

It just occurred to me that you are using Freedom Munitions brass. Are any of those cases stepped inside? If so you should discard them. They can rupture at the step.

 

No stepped in the ones I loaded.  I'll keep an eye out.  I did find a bunch of Aguilas with cracks, which made me give that particular headstamp a wary eyeball.

 

From personal experience they don't survive getting run over by a ATV.

 

This smells like a good story.

 

I am a huge fan of the prochrono digital. $100ish and it always clocks everything. Every time.

+// .005” is exactly the variation you should expect from a progressive press. Don’t worry about it. That’s all good.

Just load 124/125 coated bullets from whomever makes you happy, and forget about people chasing the magic bullet and powder combination to turn them into a GM.

I’ve run 124s, 130s, 135s, and 147s each for at least a full year of practical shooting. I am back around to 124s. They shoot soft enough to do the job just the same. If you grip the gun hard there’s no difference between a 147 and 124 in your scores

 

ProChrono is bought and arriving tomorrow.

 

I've been enjoying the "cheap-ass bullets" thread.  Super tempted by the pricing on ACMEs, but probably not tempted enough to overlook the stories about finding the wrong weight of bullet randomly mixed in.  Leaning towards just buying a shitton of 124s from SNS or BBI with the holiday pricing and either liking them or learning to like them until I run out.

 

Wondering how much time the OP spent deciding on bullets out or bullets forward. 

 

Luckily, I'm an IDPA fag; I don't have a choice.  #ThanksTwinkie  Otherwise I would be doomed.

 

I would add to what Will said by stating the best way to start reloading is on a single stage press. Focusing on one step at a time learning what it takes to make quality ammo, plus it truly gives you a strong appreciation for progressive machines later on.

 

Having mentioned earlier that I liked things to be as manual as possible for learning purposes, I did consider this argument prior to purchasing the 550.  I found it a sound argument, but then I rejected it, because lazy.



#47 Peally

Peally

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,324 posts
  • LocationWisconsin, USA

Posted 24 November 2017 - 06:45 PM

I would add to what Will said by stating the best way to start reloading is on a single stage press. Focusing on one step at a time learning what it takes to make quality ammo, plus it truly gives you a strong appreciation for progressive machines later on.


Please tell me that's clever sarcasm.

#48 ralloway

ralloway

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 117 posts
  • LocationGreensburg, PA

Posted 26 November 2017 - 06:19 AM



Did have one failure to fire out of 33 rounds. Trigger went click, no bang. Racked the slide, retrieved the offender, and saw an indent on the primer, but it didn't go bang. Tried it again with the same result. Doubt the primer (Federal small magnum pistol) was at fault, so I assume I fucked up by not seating it deep enough?


Is a magnum primer appropriate for this load? I don't recall seeing any 9mm published load data that recommends a magnum primer.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


---------------------------------
He's just this guy... ya know?!
---------------------------------


#49 Beef

Beef

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 22 posts
  • LocationNC

Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:42 AM

I am a huge fan of the prochrono digital. $100ish and it always clocks everything. Every time.

+// .005” is exactly the variation you should expect from a progressive press. Don’t worry about it. That’s all good.

Just load 124/125 coated bullets from whomever makes you happy, and forget about people chasing the magic bullet and powder combination to turn them into a GM.

I’ve run 124s, 130s, 135s, and 147s each for at least a full year of practical shooting. I am back around to 124s. They shoot soft enough to do the job just the same. If you grip the gun hard there’s no difference between a 147 and 124 in your scores

Prochrono is a good affordable chrono. Mine very rarely misses a shot. Has been within +/- 2pf of whatever they've used at the L2s I shot.

.005 is not worth worrying about.

Split the difference, 135gr the perfect weight for not giving a shit about push vs snap. 124/5s are cheaper though and less likely to have OAL/feed issues than anything heavier. 



#50 Trigger Warning

Trigger Warning

    That's What She Said

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,336 posts
  • LocationRaleighwood

Posted 26 November 2017 - 08:12 AM

Use magnum primers only if you are using an 11 pound or lighter hammer spring in a Tanfoglio that has been polished, but only on the outside.  Internals should have surfaces roughened to avoid AD's.  For magazine holders, if you are using traditional jacketed bullets then use traditional magazine orientation, but if you are using coated blue bullets then use bullets out so you can glance down and see that the OAL will be too long to seat reliably in a Tanfoglio short chamber, until you have fired about 5,000 rounds of uncleaned brass that uses the natural grit to "ream to fit" the chamber to your particular loading habits.

 

Hard won knowledge.


  • peterthefish and MEISTERB like this

#51 Peally

Peally

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,324 posts
  • LocationWisconsin, USA

Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:20 PM

They don't matter

#52 Trigger Warning

Trigger Warning

    That's What She Said

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,336 posts
  • LocationRaleighwood

Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:39 PM

I would add to what Will said by stating the best way to start reloading is on a single stage press. Focusing on one step at a time learning what it takes to make quality ammo, plus it truly gives you a strong appreciation for progressive machines later on.


This is true. Eric Grauffel spent four years shooting IPSC with a single action colt revolver under the pseudonym Pepe l’Pew. When he switched to an automatic handgun he really appreciated it.
  • peterthefish and Will like this

#53 ShootsLikeaDog

ShootsLikeaDog

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 93 posts

Posted 26 November 2017 - 06:22 PM

Is a magnum primer appropriate for this load? I don't recall seeing any 9mm published load data that recommends a magnum primer.

 

Well, here's what happened: I bought a 1000 ct pack of Federals.  The pack is labeled "Small Pistol Primers."  The word "magnum" appears nowhere on the exterior packaging.  I drove them home, two and a half hours away, and opened the exterior pack to find the individual 100 ct boxes labeled small magnum pistol.  I did what any sensible motherfucker would do and Googled the likelihood of keeping my face.  Reports from the Great Primer Shortage of 2013 indicated that they were totally interchangeable.

 

Of course, as we know, trusting the Internet for reloading wisdom is not always the best idea, but I felt confident enough in what I had found to decide that I would rather accept the small chance of face removal vs. the certainty of driving an additional five hours to the store and back.

 

So far I still have a face!

 

Prochrono is a good affordable chrono. Mine very rarely misses a shot. Has been within +/- 2pf of whatever they've used at the L2s I shot.

.005 is not worth worrying about.

Split the difference, 135gr the perfect weight for not giving a shit about push vs snap. 124/5s are cheaper though and less likely to have OAL/feed issues than anything heavier. 

 

ProChrono has arrived and will be accompanying me to the outdoor range as soon as I make it out there.  Still dithering over 124s vs. 135s, but let's be real, I'm cheap as shit and am actually still considering buying the 115s because I'm not good enough for it to really matter yet.

 

Use magnum primers only if you are using an 11 pound or lighter hammer spring in a Tanfoglio that has been polished, but only on the outside.  Internals should have surfaces roughened to avoid AD's.  For magazine holders, if you are using traditional jacketed bullets then use traditional magazine orientation, but if you are using coated blue bullets then use bullets out so you can glance down and see that the OAL will be too long to seat reliably in a Tanfoglio short chamber, until you have fired about 5,000 rounds of uncleaned brass that uses the natural grit to "ream to fit" the chamber to your particular loading habits.

 

Hard won knowledge.

 

Tanfos will get you killed in the streets, but I will follow this advice as soon as I install the Titan hammer on my Glock.



#54 Fishyjoe

Fishyjoe

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 312 posts

Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:02 PM

Advice written in crayon:

It doesn’t matter which bullet weight you choose. Apparently you plan on improving so find a load that is accurate, functions in your gat, makes power factor, and components are readily available. Chasing half of a penny will lead to shitty tumbling bullets. Reloading will eventually become a chore and constant tinkering will get old. It far less of a grind to go in bang out 500 roundsfor the week In a couple of hours than having to constantly work up and test loads. Wet fire time should be spent practicing not dicking around with test loads.
  • ShootsLikeaDog likes this

#55 u sofa king we todd ed

u sofa king we todd ed

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 338 posts

Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:03 PM

I'd know if I have enough crayons to explain this to you but I'll give it a shot:

1. The "design flaw" of the 550 is the lack of an automatic index. It is an additional step the operator must perform that can induce a failure regardless of the skill of the operator - this is a fact not an opinion. 

 

I'd know if I have enough crayons to explain this to you but I'll give it a shot:

1. The "design flaw" of the 550 is the lack of an automatic index. It is an additional step the operator must perform that can induce a failure regardless of the skill of the operator - this is a fact not an opinion. I call BS on that one.

2. When your dumb ass assumed I got my information from b anus forum and so cutely "FIFY", I stated pretty clearly when I was learning to reload I produced the error and the gunsmith stated he sees lots of work coming from 550 owners that double charge cases.

3. The OP is "learning to reload on a 550" so I shared this info with him so he didn't make the same mistake.

 

2. When your dumb ass assumed I got my information from b anus forum and so cutely "FIFY", I stated pretty clearly when I was learning to reload I produced the error and the gunsmith stated he sees lots of work coming from 550 owners that double charge cases.

3. The OP is "learning to reload on a 550" so I shared this info with him so he didn't make the same mistake.



#56 MemphisMechanic

MemphisMechanic

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 602 posts
  • LocationMemphis, TN

Posted 04 December 2017 - 12:33 PM

There is so little difference between CCI 500s and 550s (small pistol vs Magnum small pistol) in front of a chronograph with *MY* load of choice that I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend using mag primers.

I have seen a change of 1/2 to power factor, at most.
I won an IDPA match once. It was neat.

#57 beerbaron

beerbaron

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 760 posts

Posted 11 December 2017 - 07:27 PM

Some thoughts.

550s are dumb.

115s are for open ballers.

Buy a cheap Lyman tumbler which will come with a batch of their green corncob which will have you set for at least 6mths of weekly shooting and brass cleaning. If you get the slotted lid version you don't need a separator just a bucket. The slotted lid means you stick bucket on top, invert tumbler and bucket as one, shake. You now have all the brass in the tumbler and the media in the bucket. Easy.

Get some 124s. Or even 135s. It'll mean you don't need as much expensive powder to make pf. Think of the savings.

Glock 19s are dumb too.

The struggle is real.

#58 BettieWhite

BettieWhite

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 14 posts
  • LocationHeart o' Dixie

Posted 12 December 2017 - 12:07 PM

The type of guy that blows shit up will do it no matter what model press is used.
The 550 is good machine,,, if you have time to spend and stay off the sauce.

 

Agree that the 550 is perfectly capable of doing what you seem to describe wanting to do. I've owned 2-3 and I still have one in operation even though I have both a 650 w/ casefeeder and a 1050 w/ MBF and casefeeder. AS others have mentioned, case cleaning is NOT a requirement to produce functional ammo. Cleaning may help with producing more consistent ammo and extending the life of some of of your reloading equipment, maybe...

 

 

To the OP, take half the time you dick around on Doodie and Enos and use the 550 to make ammo and then practice with that ammo...

 

and/or blow your face off...


https://www.youtube....h?v=18ya0-OZ58s

 

FYI - This is supposed to be a link to youtube clip of a snickers commercial to better explain my screen name. Apparently, my attitude can get abrasive when I'm hungry and you're stupid.


#59 Professor Lee

Professor Lee

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 14 posts

Posted 14 December 2017 - 06:26 PM

Unless it is full of mud, sand, or spider webs you should be fine to load it.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users