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#1 Beef

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 01:49 PM

I started shooting USPSA in Aug '16. Started in Production classified C, shot Limited major for a couple months classed C, went back to Pro % has crawled up but still C, got bored and frustrated switched to CO in October unclassified not looking good, but matches my abysmal match performance usually landing somewhere around mid pack 45-55% of high overall. Last couple matches had some major ammo related jams and a badly botched unloaded start or I may have actually broken out of that area a little. Got a hundo so the ammo situation should be squared.

 

I shoot about 75% of points available and 70% As, most of the points down and non A hits I'd venture are on classifiers and stages heavy with hard cover and no shoots. With the dot I'm generally shooting as many or more points than the division stage winner, I didn't pay attention to this before.

 

Practice mostly consists of dry fire I try for 20/30 minutes 5 nights a week, mostly using Ben's book, or I might set up small stages. With production gear I thought I was doing pretty good meeting the par times on draw, reload, transitions, and other stuff, I think I was lying to myself about "hits", when I switched to the dot I was about 0.2s over on most of them but sure A "hits", I've whittled many of the fundamentals to the par beep. I live fire practice once a week if I don't shoot a match, it's been pretty unstructured, but I'm working on that.

 

What I've realized, I'm fuckin slow obviously, I used to think it was just my movement position to position cause that's what observers told me, shitty classifiers should have been a clue this wasn't the only area. I do know that is a partial cause as I will sometimes literally pause and think what next before leaving a position, seems to be happening less lately as I have really been trying to burn in stage plans and not change them last after the walk thru period.

 

The other day I clearly demonstrated to myself I  was slow at every damn thing in a live fire practice. My range has a plate rack, I'm lazy, cheap, and forgetful so a lot of my live fire involves it. 

 

10yd draw to an 8" plate or lower A is at best 1.40s usually in the 1.5-.6 range. Not sure why my live fire draw is almost a second longer than dry fire.

 

I do a reload drill on the rack of two plates, reload, two plates, reload, two and the reloads shot to shot are 2.34-2.8 with no real consistency, best I can find in my notes was 2.13, shitty but probably not a place to put mass effort? I really only started hitting them in dry fire after not fully seating a mag on an unloaded start murdered a stage.

 

Just running the rack L-R I'm 0.8 slower than a time I found for Rob L. I'm @ 3.33 with a 1.56 draw and feeling almost out of control transitioning, guessing a massive amount of that difference is in the draw.

 

If you read this drivel this far then I'm all ears for advice, I don't know if I'll update this with any frequency or not.


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#2 Ben

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 04:18 PM

You practice quite a lot... are you pushing the speed at all when dry?

Post some video.


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#3 waktasz

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 04:25 PM

That's got to be a typo, right? You only shoot 75% of the points?



#4 Beef

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 08:03 PM

You practice quite a lot... are you pushing the speed at all when dry?

Post some video.

 

To be totally honest it's a bit sporadic, like go at with that frequency for a couple months then say fuck it for a week or three, only started dry firing in maybe June or July, felt like there was some immediate improvement then nothing. I try to push speed in dry fire, but a lot of times I see the sights getting real sloppy and pull it back. I'll see if I can get someone to video the match this Saturday. 

That's got to be a typo, right? You only shoot 75% of the points?

 

That's what that snazzy bar graph on the stats page tells me, 76.68% of points available. 



#5 Peally

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 08:21 PM

Don't use that graph, use observation of your latest match results.

#6 GuanoLoco

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 11:10 PM

The truth will set you free.

TEST your dry fire results with live fire practice, then recalibrate how you dry fire.
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#7 Motosapiens

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:09 PM

The truth will set you free.

TEST your dry fire results with live fire practice, then recalibrate how you dry fire.

 

additionally, considering doing some dryfire at the range. do a few live fire reps, then some dryfire reps. observe the differences. notice what you are doing different (i.e. being lazy and sloppy about) in dryfire.

 

figure out what you need to see and do to get an acceptable hit in live fire, and replicate that stuff in dryfire.... only faster.

 

Also, consider some drills to break through the slowness. spend a few mins drawing to a target at 5 yards are less. or an array of 3 targets at that distance. Learn what it feels like to shoot really fast while still observing what the gun is doing. Just try to get all the shots on paper and don't worry about alphas...... Once you know what it feels like to go fast, start adding some accuracy back in. You will probably be surprised at how much of that speed you can keep.


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2013 National Champion C class  Limited 10


#8 Beef

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 11:11 AM

So it's been four months, still no video, still in C, might've barely slipped into B in CO but the lens on my optic came loose and tossed the zero off a few feet, probably could've done better turning it off if I'd known what happened, as it was I think I was 1 or 2% above the score not counting, awesome. 

 

While that junk was out for warranty I pulled the production gear out. Shot three matches. First with four days of dry fire and no live fire to get reacquainted landed 8 out of 22, 62% of the GM that won, racked up a ton of penalties, taking away near 20%. Second match 5 out of 13 with a first ever production stage win no one above A though this day. Third match 11 of 21, 84% of the guy that won, no penalties, that might be a first, fucking with springs untested and not going more than six rounds, often 3/4, without a light strike on the first stage of the day certainly didn't help my overall. Lessons, times are coming down, the obvious shit: don't shoot penalties, don't dick with your gun the night before a match. 

 

Practice stuff, live fire, Blake drills mostly, cause I think my transitions are awful; some bill drills, and mini stages.

Blake @ 7 running about 2.2 .31ish transitions, .24ish splits, draw seems lame 1.1, splits could come down;

Bills about 1/10th quicker, gaining about 1/10th every 2 yds I back off until I pass 15yds, then it gets real slow, first shot and splits.

SOTM pretty solid hits without slowing to a crawl out to about 7yds.

 

Dryfire, was doing decent, couple short sessions 4/5 days a week, then slacked off to one, pushing hard on transitions, working on the draw incorporating prepping the trigger as there seems to be a pretty big disconnect between getting the sight on and actually pressing the trigger in live fire. Thought I was working on position entry but may need to reconfigure my space and place serious focus on my foot position.

 

Highlight of the period, took a class from the MFCEO, Fundamentals. Within the first hour or so he's like what the fuck are you doing in C class? he'd ask it a few more times, well goddammit I dunno, but that's some motivation to get the hell out. Probably the biggest thing that he delivered in a way I think I can embrace, my feelings are completely irrelevant. Technical take aways, get the weak hand on the gun sooner; ease the strong hand grip so I can better isolate my trigger press, I knew I gripped the shit out the gun with my SH but didn't recognize the issue with it; don't overrun positions, slow down sooner, get my feet planted and hips square so I'm not bouncing, swaying, having to lean for no good reason, or worse shuffling my feet when the sights come on target or to get them there, this may have a lot to do with my track record of penalties; if I blow a position and turn an easy shot into a hard one eating charlies is far better than repositioning or high probability mikes/NS, seems obvious, but it's a mindset shift; change how much sight refinement I need mostly when going from hard targets to easy. My shot calling with irons still blows. Left with a lot of little tweaks to work on and some fairly major, with a decent dose of motivation to get it done. Should've asked more questions and took better notes.


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#9 Beef

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 09:40 PM

Well apparently I can't figure out how to post a video. No one wanted to see this shit anyway.
Shot a 7 stage club match this weekend, 9th out of 22 in production, 2 or 3 stages went half decent, did dumb shit in most of them, lot of pulling off targets before actually making the second shot.

Stage 7, first stage, super simple, great thing to start on, first shot was 1.05, guy running the timer said I was out of the first box faster than anyone not shooting Open, I dunno, I tried to take off after the first array and had to stop myself, hits were good up there, third array drug a couple into the D zone and then had a light strike, killed any good I did at the start for sure.


Stage 1, 3rd in Production, pretty much seemed ok to me.


The rest of it's down there somewhere



#10 BenB

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 10:26 PM

(I also shot this match in Production. Not my best performance by a long shot, but how I shot it might give you some context for my recommendations.)

 

Stage 7 was 13A, 8C, 3D. In other words, 13As, 11 non-As. Also your cadence of two quick shots on each target and then a long pause while you line up on the next target, makes it seem like you're double tapping. On the second and third arrays, you want to shoot 8 equally aimed shots spread between the targets, not 4 double taps. A double tap is very often an aimed alpha and then a charlie or delta because the sights haven't come back yet and you're just pulling the trigger again. So half your hits being alphas and half your hits being something else is consistent with that.

 

Stage 1

Lots of excess movement coming in to the second position. You end up having to add movement in order to save time shooting that guy coming in. I chose to come in on the second from the right target and leave shooting the guy that you came in on. That's some of the two second difference in our stage times.

 

Also, more double tapping. You get the gun out quick on the first target and rip a nice .20 split, but then have to spend a long time getting your front sight back to aim at the tight target. The splits are fast, but the overall time from first to last shot on the first two targets is longer than it could be. And 8 charlies on this stage is on the high side.

 

Stage 2

You had a competitive raw time on the stage, but dropped a lot of charlies and deltas and skipped a target. Work on the stage planning and stop double tapping. Aim every shot.

 

Stage 3

Shooting the plates on the move was a no brainer. That was definitely the way to go, but you have to be able to hit them. Steel really gave you trouble on this stage and that hurt your raw time, including the standing reload at the end.

 

And ripping double taps on almost every paper charlie is costing you on points hard. Was the mike a hard cover or a barrel hit?

 

Stage 4

Results shot you got 7A, 2B, 5C. I'd be curious if you were double tapping here too.

 

Stage 5

Your raw time is competitive and you ran the plate rack well, but the points on paper killed you. 6 paper targets, 5A, 5C, 2D. Sounds like more of the alpha-charlie on every target from double tapping.

 

Stage 6

I think you accurately diagnosed the fundamentals issue with accuracy. Sounds like you were feeling rushed and not taking the time to get your alphas on the long targets.

 

That said, "shot like shit just to be sure to finish with a flaming pile" is being a little hard on yourself. It's over now, just try to learn from it.


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#11 Peally

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 07:56 AM

Why did you just keep pulling the trigger when the gun stopped going off? Just curious, if one pull didn't set a round off four isn't going to do it.



#12 BenB

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 05:58 PM

Why did you just keep pulling the trigger when the gun stopped going off? Just curious, if one pull didn't set a round off four isn't going to do it.

 

That's how long it took me to snap out of subconscious shooting and realize I needed to do something outside of what I practice.



#13 ngodwetrust21

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 06:16 PM

That's how long it took me to snap out of subconscious shooting and realize I needed to do something outside of what I practice.


Better question is why do your primers not want to go bang. I feel like I see that happen to you pretty regularly. 2 times at that match and several other videos you have posted I see it happen. What gives?
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#14 BenB

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 06:30 PM

Better question is why do your primers not want to go bang. I feel like I see that happen to you pretty regularly. 2 times at that match and several other videos you have posted I see it happen. What gives?

 

Don't want to derail the thread. The answers you seek lie elsewhere.



#15 Peally

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 06:39 PM

That's how long it took me to snap out of subconscious shooting and realize I needed to do something outside of what I practice.

 

Damn son, after two DA pulls I feel like that's the time massive loud mental alarms are firing off in my head to rack the thing. Must be a nice ass trigger lol


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#16 Beef

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:04 PM

Apparently there's a two media limit per post

 

Stage 2, planned it 10-5-4-10, shot it 10-5-3-9...oh no 10, just damned retarded.


Stage 3, those plates are huge, but I should've posted up and shot them like everyone else, definitely didn't save time probably cost it, running to slide lock took the reserve that I seem to have needed for the last shot.



#17 Beef

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:05 PM

Stage 4, 03-04, shot way too conservative time and/or aiming looks like 64.something%

Stage 5, no I didn't decide to skip my fucking leg cramped. I dunno, possibly could've shot sooner coming into box two, make-up on the rack and Deltas were probably the biggest issues I can see.


Stage 6, plan never got real solid, and shot like shit just to be sure to finish with a flaming pile, aimed pretty hard then smashed the trigger and don't even think I was looking in the direction of the target anymore when the gun when off on three longer shots.
 



#18 ngodwetrust21

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 03:35 PM

So just a few things I noticed. You need to clean up your hits. If you are shooting Mikes, you should be able to call them as you are shooting. You need to see your sights well enough to call every shot. Don’t try to shoot a certain cadence or do double taps. It doesn’t make sense to pull the trigger unless you have an acceptable sight picture. See your shots.

You need to speed up your movements. You do a lot of walking and slow reloads. Speed your reloads up, move quickly, and have that gun up ready to shoot when you come into position.
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#19 ngodwetrust21

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 03:40 PM

So just a few things I noticed. You need to clean up your hits. If you are shooting Mikes, you should be able to call them as you are shooting. You need to see your sights well enough to call every shot. Don’t try to shoot a certain cadence or do double taps. It doesn’t make sense to pull the trigger unless you have an acceptable sight picture. See your shots.

Case in point. On the plate rack, you spent a lot of time after y I fired the last shot to move to the next position. I feel like you were watching the steel fall. Instead you need to call your shots and immediately move to the next position after you call that last shot good.

You need to speed up your movements. You do a lot of walking and slow reloads. Speed your reloads up, move quickly, and have that gun up ready to shoot when you come into position.


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#20 Beef

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 11:05 AM

Shot a small match the last weekend of April, 3rd of 5 in Production, an M, a couple Bs, and a U. 7 out of 17 overall.

Started on 4 put one in hardcover, not called, saw it leaving, thought it broke the line, thought wrong.

 

5 had some longish shots I didn't give the respect they needed, 3 PCCs had faster times, but the points dropped killed any good. Miss was into a 1" hardcover separating two vertical stacked targets, shot an eighth inch too early transitioning up.

 

3 For some reason slowed way down half way through the third position, the RO was like WTF? after, and I had no answer, then fell off my reload plan, recovered without a flat footed reload or anything, but made for a stutter in my movement.

 

1 Quicky II suck at shooting one handed.

 

2 Payne's Pain, started way too conservative I think worrying too much over the lean.

 

He6cFhU.jpg?1

 

Left feeling ok with my movement, weak on burning in stage plans, needing to work on discipline at distance, and pretty clearly unable to intuit the A zone on classics, and obviously not shot calling.

 

Mostly sticking with the same dry fire routine, 10 and 25yd draws, wide transitions at 5 and 10, short movements, reloads, spending less time on it though.

Managed a couple hours live fire a couple weekends, I guess not very focused.

 

Match last weekend, few more competitors, 10, no one higher than M in production, won three stages in division good enough for 2nd, 17 out of 58 overall. Forgot my ammo, but was able to buy some factory from a competitor, I think this may have contributed to two close misses.

 

Started on 5, felt slow and out of sorts, feelings are irrelevant.

 

6 Can you Count is dumb, two super shitty reloads and still got flagged A.

 

1 Pretty much a hoser stage, four arrays of two targets, a few options, fastest times involved turning two positions into one by leaning out around a barrel stack, either being long enough or hooking your foot under the wall for stability hits were not great from what I saw, other options were running with a tight squeeze and backward entry or running further but straight. I legged it out, couple seconds off of the fastest times, if my leg was 100% may have tightened the gap a little.

 

2 Fell into habit of smashing trigger as soon as front sight was on brown for the second shot, points show it.

 

3 Kind of choppy stage with three shooting areas. I was super slow, 8 seconds off the overall winner, 2 seconds off the production winner. Ran essentially the same plan as the HOA.

 

4 Fastest time in production, terrible points, 4 hardcover mikes, two on headboxes at 15 yds or so, just low, unknown ammo may have contributed, they were aimed, they weren't rushed. Two other mikes were barely into hard cover leaving position on a fairly close target with no excuse.

 

5y0Z54T.jpg

 

Obvious thing, patience on the second shot appears to have paid off when I did it. Will be working partials and headshots hard. Planning to switch back to CO, not positive if that's a good thing or not, shot calling is super easy with the dot if I just pay a little attention, but doesn't seem to carry over to irons for me.






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