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The 10,000 Hour Deliberate Practice Rule


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#21 Bjorn

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 04:52 AM

The 10.000 hour rule basically says that if you practice a lot, you will become very good. 

 

I never understood the particular interest people have for this very obvious theory. It is almost as if something magical will happen when you hit the 10K mark. Nothing will happen. I actually believe less will happen if you focus on just doing the time and reaching 10K. 



#22 peterthefish

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 07:01 AM

I never understood the particular interest people have for this very obvious theory.

I have an ex from high school who played guitar. She was fucking terrible. She had been taking lessons for a couple years when I met her but was tone deaf, had no rhythm, just no spark... When I heard she was going to school to teach music I LOL’d hard.

Fast forward she is now a very competent classical guitarist - way beyond me. So many people ascribe high levels of performance in a field to natural aptitude rather than practice that I think there’s some cognitive dissonance in the realization that even an idiot who tries hard can be pretty damn good at something.
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#23 J.A.Nine

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 08:24 AM

"Yes. There is a lot of confusion about the 10,000 rule that I talk about in Outliers. It doesn't apply to sports. And practice isn't a SUFFICIENT condition for success. I could play chess for 100 years and I'll never be a grandmaster. The point is simply that natural ability requires a huge investment of time in order to be made manifest. Unfortunately, sometimes complex ideas get oversimplified in translation." - Malcolm Gladwell 


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#24 snark

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 09:23 AM

In USPSA, it's the 500,000 rounds-to-GM rule. 

 

Want to be a GM?  Shoot half a million rounds through your gats.  By then you will either be a GM or quit.


Use the rules. Don't DQ someone who doesn't do anything DQable. -- Da Beard.

 


#25 Bjorn

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 09:43 AM

The point is simply that natural ability requires a huge investment of time in order to be made manifest.

 

I agree with this, but at the same time wonder how many people would invest 10.000 hours of their time to find out if they suck or not, given that there are no visible signs of talent. I would think that most people would at least evaluate earlier.



#26 Sweet T

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 10:08 AM

In USPSA, it's the 500,000 rounds-to-GM rule. 

 

Want to be a GM?  Shoot half a million rounds through your gats.  By then you will either be a GM or quit.

 

I would have quit if that were the rule



#27 Peally

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 10:14 AM

500,000? Only a mere 50 years of shooting, easy.



#28 Trigger Warning

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 10:42 AM

If this thread had 10,000 posts it’d be pretty good.
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#29 GuanoLoco

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 01:54 PM

I have an ex from high school who played guitar. She was fucking terrible. She had been taking lessons for a couple years when I met her but was tone deaf, had no rhythm, just no spark... When I heard she was going to school to teach music I LOL’d hard.

Fast forward she is now a very competent classical guitarist - way beyond me. So many people ascribe high levels of performance in a field to natural aptitude rather than practice that I think there’s some cognitive dissonance in the realization that even an idiot who tries hard can be pretty damn good at something.

The Talent Code talks about the quality of practice, and of things like an increasingly large efforts required to create myelin as you get older.

https://zulfahmed.fi.../talentcode.pdf
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#30 Vagetarian

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 04:45 PM

I'm just going to put 10,000 hours into business because it turns out that you can buy happiness.
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#31 Bjorn

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 03:04 AM

The Talent Code talks about the quality of practice, and of things like an increasingly large efforts required to create myelin as you get older.

https://zulfahmed.fi.../talentcode.pdf

Thanks for the link/advise. Ordered. 



#32 racetaco

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 07:06 AM

I just completed my 10,000 hours! Unfortunately it was with the wrong hobby, now I'm a porn addict and labeled a pervert.
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#33 beerbaron

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 08:19 PM

10,000 hours is a pipe dream for most.

If you could dry fire 1hr a day (say 30min before and after work) and live fire 5 hrs on the weekend that's 10hrs a week. ~500 a year. 20 years to get to 10,000. And even 10hrs a week is way out of reach for most part time shooters.

Ask hwansik how he got to genuine match heat status in 3 years. I don't think he ran 10,000 hours. He got smart.
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#34 Michel Neaucheutte

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 09:25 PM

Ask hwansik how he got to genuine match heat status in 3 years. I don't think he ran 10,000 hours. He got smart.

 

Didn't he do it by training 8-10 hours a day? Maybe he didn't do 10,000, but 5,000 is probably in the ballpark.



#35 Damcowboy

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 07:45 PM

Its not just any old practice, Eriksson talks about deliberate practice, which is what Ben talks about.  Just putting in 10,000 hrs isn't going to do it, it has to be focused and deliberate.



#36 Matt1

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 08:14 AM

Wait? First you tell me I have to train to get good. Now you tell me I have to train properly? Jeez, this shit is hard work 😂


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#37 Trigger Warning

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 08:25 AM

The news is even worse.  10,000 hours was chosen simply because it was the highest number the author thought understandable by the average lazy bastard reading the thing.  It's more like 25,000 hours and 10 years and then you will still fail because by then they will change the extractor design and your gat will death jam on a high point value stage.

 

https://www.inc.com/...iginal-stu.html


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#38 GuanoLoco

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 09:34 AM

This is why there is such a fundamental difference between practice and deliberate practice. In fact, if your definition of practice is to repeat what you have previously done, over and over again without pushing yourself further, it will only make your brain more fixed in using those neural pathways and make it less flexible and able to generate ideas to handle new challenges.


10,000 hours of practice sucking balls will only ensure that you are a Subject Matter Expert expert at sucking balls.

My biggest takeway from Ben’s class this past year was that I need to push myself much harder.
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#39 Crash

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:17 PM

^^this^^

 

 

Its not 10,000 hours to your maximum potential, its 10,000 hours to get great at something.  Pretty sure you qualify for that label.  

 

If think it was Gladwell that termed the 10,000 hours, Ericsson is not that specific.  Or it could have been the other way around.

 

Gladwell took Ericssons ideas and pasted the 10k hour label on it.  If you read Ericssons books he talks a bit about Gladwell and his 10k hour rule.  The rule just makes for a good talking point.  But the research Ericsson has done goes to show that natural talent is not a thing barring restrictions such as size, but excellence is achieved through thousands of hours of what he calls purposeful practice or deliberate practice.  Quality practice, not just the going through the motion type practice most of us do. 

 

Now, how to apply that to shooting is the million dollar question.  Take someone like Ben.  He obviously enjoys training, I think more than competing.  Being able to enjoy the process is the key to being great at anything.  All of the top shooters I have talked to have a similar mindset.  They are able to self analyze their performance, enjoy the process of training, and have found the training methods that work for them.  I think most of us are out there just swinging for the fences with no real direction...We hang out in the garage smoking draws and reloads but not really learning anything.  We go to the range and roll the dice on a few drills and then go home, again not really learning anything.     



#40 CheesyD

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:40 PM

Speak for yourself there Crash. I gleaned a lot from the last class with Ben and it was not necessarily drills or techniques. It’s the analytical, raw assessment, required to observe the issues and work to fix them. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




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