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Stop obsessing with small parts


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#1 MilkMyDuds

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 07:33 PM

http://firearmsnatio...-of-uspsa-2018/

 

I will agree if Production can load 15 rounds.



#2 ngodwetrust21

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 09:17 PM

Mike starts talking about production at 23 minutes in. Gotta say, even though it will be frowned upon here, I completely agree with him. Stop obsessing with small parts. Too difficult to enforce. IPSC has the same problem. Let’s move on and focus on the shooting.
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#3 MilkMyDuds

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 09:31 PM

Mike starts talking about production at 23 minutes in. Gotta say, even though it will be frowned upon here, I completely agree with him. Stop obsessing with small parts. Too difficult to enforce. IPSC has the same problem. Let’s move on and focus on the shooting.

You forgot the #ReleaseThe15Rounds



#4 slink

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 09:47 PM

He kind of contradicts himself though.

Says shouldn't turn away those who get cool ass guns and then later learn about uspsa and want to compete.

But then won't let them stipple their tactical gats. Or cut their slides. Or use their lasers and plate carriers.

And wants to limit to 10 rounds.

Beginners have no division.

#5 not that bryan

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 02:49 AM

Most of us have been obsessed with the disregard for the rule book and the rulings coming out of DNROI and the Pres from USPSA not the actual parts being made legal. USPSA as an organization provides 2 main thing for clubs and shooters. It provides the classifier system and the rules. Stability of the rules is a good thing for the sport and HQ should not undermine the rulebook.

Change the rule book instead of issuing rulings that conflict with the wording of the rule book and the parts are no issue.
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#6 Cranky Gunsmith

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 07:11 AM



Beginners have no division.


Yes they do. Limited. When you finish 5th from last in the overall, it doesn't really matter what you shoot. Limited minor is fine for your first year.
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#7 Ben

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 11:22 AM

Mike starts talking about production at 23 minutes in. Gotta say, even though it will be frowned upon here, I completely agree with him. Stop obsessing with small parts. Too difficult to enforce. IPSC has the same problem. 

​Have you even been to an IPSC match? I don't think they have a problem with enforcing production rules. I don't see systemic noncompliance with the rules at any IPSC match I have been to.

​The main problem with IPSC Production is that the ruleset absolutely fucks over striker fired guns. We don't have that issue in USPSA.



#8 Alfred Salveti

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 12:28 PM

The industry is to blame for killing production. 

 

You have factory production custom guns with factory features that would otherwise be illegal.

 

Production is over.  Making it more in line with  Limited 10 Minor is the future...and may not be a bad thing.

 

1: Fits in box

2: Holds 10 rounds

3: DA/SA or Striker

4: No comps, dots, barrel porting.

5: No illiac crest.

6: No Holster restrictions


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#9 ngodwetrust21

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 01:39 PM

​Have you even been to an IPSC match? I don't think they have a problem with enforcing production rules. I don't see systemic noncompliance with the rules at any IPSC match I have been to.
​The main problem with IPSC Production is that the ruleset absolutely fucks over striker fired guns. We don't have that issue in USPSA.


Can’t say I have ever attended an IPSC match. They discussed it one the podcast though. Pretty sure Mike said they had the same problem.

What is the issue with allowing the additional changes of the hammer and trigger?
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#10 Ben

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 01:41 PM



What is the issue with allowing the additional changes of the hammer and trigger?


What do you mean?

#11 ngodwetrust21

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 01:46 PM

I thought this thing erupted over USPSA allowing some triggers or hammers to be used in production that shouldn’t have really been allowed to be used according to the rule book?
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#12 slink

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 01:57 PM

I thought this thing erupted over USPSA allowing some triggers or hammers to be used in production that shouldn’t have really been allowed to be used according to the rule book?


Stop worrying about those small parts.
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#13 Ben

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 02:25 PM

Can’t say I have ever attended an IPSC match. They discussed it one the podcast though. Pretty sure Mike said they had the same problem.

 

I am unaware of the problem being referred to.



#14 Sweet T

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 02:30 PM



The industry is to blame for killing production.

You have factory production custom guns with factory features that would otherwise be illegal.

Production is over. Making it more in line with Limited 10 Minor is the future...and may not be a bad thing.


You're talking out of your ass.

It was foreseen and encouraged that production guns would advance and be custom tailored for competition by manufacturers. The BoD in 2009 approvingly called it the "evolution of the stock gun".

Secondly, by what metric could production possibly be considered "killed" or "over"? Have you been living under a rock?

This argument that tanfos and shadows are somehow not production guns or that they render plastic guns uncompetitive is absurd.
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#15 Ben

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 02:34 PM

Secondly, by what metric could production possibly be considered "killed" or "over"? Have you been living under a rock?



Does anyone even shoot production any more?
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#16 Nimrod

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 03:03 PM

10 round mags and dumb first shots. 

I guess it depends on if you live in a restrictive state



#17 Matt1

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 07:54 PM

​Have you even been to an IPSC match? I don't think they have a problem with enforcing production rules. I don't see systemic noncompliance with the rules at any IPSC match I have been to.

​The main problem with IPSC Production is that the ruleset absolutely fucks over striker fired guns. We don't have that issue in USPSA.


It’s probably a good thing that nobody can tell who actually makes a spring or whether that wear was from polishing or dry fire though.....


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#18 Alfred Salveti

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 11:12 PM

You're talking out of your ass.

It was foreseen and encouraged that production guns would advance and be custom tailored for competition by manufacturers. The BoD in 2009 approvingly called it the "evolution of the stock gun".

Secondly, by what metric could production possibly be considered "killed" or "over"? Have you been living under a rock?

This argument that tanfos and shadows are somehow not production guns or that they render plastic guns uncompetitive is absurd.


You may be the stupidist motherfucker on the internet. Thankyou for helping me make my point.

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#19 Peally

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 11:38 PM

Whenever someone shows up to a match with a Tanfo I just pack up my shitty German striker crap and go home right away.
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#20 GuanoLoco

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 08:09 AM

I am torn between not wanting to fuck with production, having a simple set of rules. Unfortunately the former means having the current functional shitshot of rules, rulings, interpretation, general confusion / random cornformance and an organizational lack of regard for published rules because inconvenient.

The rules are what makes USPSA great. Follow the rules or change the rules. It’s that simple. Otherwise, GTFO.
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