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Production just got a little less productiony...


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#141 Peally

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 08:10 PM

Limited minor is much easier for new shooters, fuck's sake.


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#142 alphashooter

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 10:34 PM

Limited minor is much easier for new shooters, fuck's sake.

And then a ton of guys snicker and tell you limited minor is stupid because you get less points for B, C, and D hits. They say limited minor is dumb and non competitive. That's why new shooters shy away from the red headed step child named "limited minor".

#143 Peally

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 12:05 AM

About as noncompetitive as an unclassified shooter already is.

 

If there's a new shooter shooting any division and people are snickering about it they're pieces of shit.


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#144 Just Some Random Hoser

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 12:55 PM

If they are really serious in bringing in new shooters into Prod, they should increase mag cap to 15. That way, anyone with 3 or 4 mags could start playing USPSA right away without having to worry about buying more mags.


AND to use the firearm as intended, Load the magazines up to manufacturers intent.
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#145 Slow250

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 02:45 PM

Agree with limited minor.  A new shooter's holster setup is 99% ok, 3 mags will do, and the gun will most likely be legal (that last one may no longer apply, production is going to be pretty loose). 



#146 Timmy

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 06:33 PM

AND to use the firearm as intended, Load the magazines up to manufacturers intent.

 

So if Glock started shipping the G34 with 33rd mags I can use those?  Sign me up! :unsure:



#147 Dutchman195

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 01:16 PM

If they are really serious in bringing in new shooters into Prod, they should increase mag cap to 15.  That way, anyone with 3 or 4 mags could start playing USPSA right away without having to worry about buying more mags.  

Stop using common sense. 


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#148 Just Some Random Hoser

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 05:46 PM

So if Glock started shipping the G34 with 33rd mags I can use those? Sign me up! :unsure:


Don’t they have a box that the gun has to fit into with a magazine inserted?
So no, no 33 round or drum magazines.....unless your a pussy PCC shooter!

#realshootetsshootproduction

#149 Timmy

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 08:08 PM

Don’t they have a box that the gun has to fit into with a magazine inserted?
So no, no 33 round or drum magazines.....unless your a pussy PCC shooter!

#realshootetsshootproduction

But reloading is hard!  :blink: 

 

I like the idea of gun with mag must fit the box and that's it; makes it easy, nothing else to measure, or count while shooting for ROs.  I'd get rid of the whole "manufacturer's intent" part, just gun with mag in box = GTG.

 

#thenI'dstartshootingproduction



#150 Tanfastic

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 12:49 PM

The REASON is that it defeats the purpose of production. To bring in more uspsa members production was started so any dumbass off the street could buy a gun, a few extra mags, and such, and compete, And "feel" like his gun is competitive. Joe dumbass didn't have to spend 3 to 5 grand to enjoy uspsa.

Here we are now. Too many people stuck their dicks in it and now production is fucked up.

 

Stupid argument, that concept was already killed when guys with $1500 guns became the only ones who could win Production.  If your concept was correct, participation numbers would be going down, not up.  And the new people who are coming in ALL want to do basic mods to their guns, the "myth" of the guy who wants to shoot a box stock gun with minimal investment and be competitive is just that, a myth.


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#151 Peally

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 02:41 PM

I shoot a stock gun (other than sights); I'm no magician with a pistol but prod top 5 at any sectional is pretty attainable.

#152 Sweet T

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 03:50 PM

Stupid argument, that concept was already killed when guys with $1500 guns became the only ones who could win Production. 

 

lol



#153 BettieWhite

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 04:33 PM

Trying to get a grasp on the "big picture," with the information I have, I don't understand the enforceability argument because it appears Production was running well without these changes. The self-policing appeared largely effective. ETA: I see it as "fixing" something that was never broken. 

 

That lead me to think about membership growth/retention instead. 

 

You clearly have no clue as to how quickly an unobtainum hammer and/or trigger shoe can take you from D-class keyboard jockey to running neck-and-neck wiht the likes of the Steg.


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#154 BettieWhite

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 04:44 PM

It's called Open.

 

I thought that it used to be called "Modified" in another game...?

 

Which brings up another point...if it's "modified" AT ALL, is it still "Production"?


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#155 MemphisMechanic

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 06:23 PM

I thought that it used to be called "Modified" in another game...?

Which brings up another point...if it's "modified" AT ALL, is it still "Production"?


Somebody mass-produced those hammers and triggers. They’re part of someone’s production lineup. It’s just CGW’s, and not CZ’s.

Also... I wonder how much of a hit Bruce Gray’s sales will take now that he isn’t the only P320 trigger vendor in town...
I won an IDPA match once. It was neat.

#156 flyingpig

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 07:05 PM

The notion that anyone can come into USPSA fresh and be competitive (with anyone above other new shooters) is a fantasy to 99.9 percent of all new shooters. Its a great sport and most people end up shooting more matches even though they suck at it at first. To pretend that a strict  production division is somehow going to put all competitors on a level playing field is a complete joke. Beginners should shoot whatever division they feel they want to shoot. But don't expect to be competitive with others that have been doing it longer. As they get better and want to gain small advantages by "pimping" their guns to gain small advantages...have at it. That's the way it is in all competitive endeavors. I've played golf with guys with the best golf clubs.....I've fished bass tournaments against guys with the most expensive boats and tackle. Some of them were great and some of them still sucked no matter how much they spent. So its the same with action pistol. Big deal. Shoot and enjoy the sport. 


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#157 Motosapiens

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 07:19 PM

who the hell cares?

 

it wouldn't change the match finishes one bit if we shitcanned a bunch more production rules and just left a few:

1. start with an actual production gun, da/sa or striker

2. fit in the box.

3. scored minor.

4. 10 rounds (or 15 if you're a euro-fag)

5. no external magwells, or some other reasonable way of defining that.

 

it would be the exact same division, the same guys would win, and it would cause less headache for everyone except the extreme reactionaries.

 

so far, the only arguments I've seen from the people that don't like the new rules are "fixing something that wasn't broken" and "it won't level the playing field". Those are stupid arguments. Tell me why the rule change is bad. How will it make production worse? How will it negatively affect competitive equity or participation or any other actual thing. (your hurt feelings are not a thing, btw).

 

the more I shoot other divisions, the more i realize the production rules are dumb.


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#158 CheesyD

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 08:17 PM

We may as well give out fucking participation trophies. And $100 gift cards to those who DQ.

Don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelers and make them all feel welcome!


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#159 bailey

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 04:39 AM

Let me understand. If Production allowed 15 rounds per mag, it would increase participation for beginners because they wouldn't need to buy 3-4 new mags? Ha !! If you can't afford 3-4 mags you sure as hell can't afford ammunition, match fees, and all the other costs of shooting. Come on get some common sense here. It's expensive to shoot. It's expensive to play golf and bass fish. It's expensive to just go watch baseball games. Do you have any useful arguments?



#160 MemphisMechanic

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 11:49 AM

Let me understand. If Production allowed 15 rounds per mag, it would increase participation for beginners because they wouldn't need to buy 3-4 new mags? Ha !! If you can't afford 3-4 mags you sure as hell can't afford ammunition, match fees, and all the other costs of shooting. Come on get some common sense here. It's expensive to shoot. It's expensive to play golf and bass fish. It's expensive to just go watch baseball games. Do you have any useful arguments?

The argument is actually that the beginner at his very first match with 3 mags would be able to finish a 32 round stage, and wouldn’t have to shoot Limited Minor instead.

I’m not sure how much that actually matters: every man and woman I’ve introduced to USPSA has shot Lim minor first then gotten hooked and bought the gear for the division of choice.

None of them immediately hated that they were in a 2011 division with a polymer 9mm, since they’re not looking to win match #1 anyway.
I won an IDPA match once. It was neat.




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