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Hit factors up...accuracy down.


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#1 flyingpig

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 09:10 PM

Approaching the first full year of USPSA in about a month. Of course I was addicted after my first match, and honestly it took me about an entire summer to finally "get it". I'm expecting so make "B" class production sometime here in the near future. The "get it" part has to do with speeding things up. I have finally learned that you need to pick up the speed to finally start getting some respectable Hit factors. So all this winter (indoor matches) thats exclusively what I have worked on and it has paid off. My hit factors have generally moved up 1 to 1.5 more than I used to have. So in that regard I have been pretty happy with my progress. The problem is that while at first I prided myself at being very accurate, with the  speed I've gained, my accuracy has really kind of taken a hit. I know if I "slow down" or actually wait for a little better sight picture I am sure my accuracy will certainly go back up but I fear my hit factors will suffer again. A lot of guys are telling me mixed solutions. Some say bring back the accuracy and let the speed come, and some say fuck that......keep going fast and that the accuracy will catch up. So what is it? Slow down or keep going fast. simply looking for a consensus. What the best way to the next level?



#2 dansedgli

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 09:29 PM

Just be fast and also accurate.
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#3 ToddKS

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 10:03 PM

It is not a matter of speeding up or slowing down. It is about understanding what you need to see to get acceptable hits at given distances , as fast as possible. It is also not really about shooting fast in some cases. Movement and doinng things sooner is a bigger factor in many cases. I got smoked tonight on a stage where I shot at least as fast as the guy who beat me, but he was much more efficient in his movements. He did everything sooner and it added up to multiple seconds. All that said, get a PCC. Planning reloads is dumb.
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#4 Motosapiens

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 10:33 PM

is the match scored on accuracy? or is it scored on hit factor?

 

why would you GAF about something that is not part of your score?


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#5 flyingpig

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 10:54 PM

is the match scored on accuracy? or is it scored on hit factor?

 

why would you GAF about something that is not part of your score?

 

Well?..........Because I'm not going to outright win any matches shooting 85 percent of my total points. At some point my accuracy has got to get better while moving fast. So best way to get where I want? Slow it back down and work back up, or keep running fast and  the accuracy will come?

And at this point current HFs are also not where I want to stay.



#6 peterthefish

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 11:25 PM

See what you need to see.

No more: it will slow you down.
No less: your accuracy will suffer.

#7 slemmo

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 01:24 AM

Dont think there's a set solution that works for everyone, some people will have to shoot slow and accurate and let the speed come, and some people other way around. Depends on where your talents are I guess. And no one can shoot accurate as fast as you need to in practical shooting from the start, otherwise obviously you would kick ass.

 

If you've been doing other slow shooting sports before and can shoot accurate, I would focus on speeding up and let the accuracy catch up, if you cant shoot worth shit I would shoot and move slow until the accuracy was there, and then start speeding up. Shooting fast is a timing issue, you need to know how your gun recoils and behaves. Shoot some bill drills for instance.



#8 Race taco's brother

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 06:04 AM

You said that you are "speeding things up". What are you speeding up? And what about that is effecting your accuracy?
If you can specificly answer these questions you will be on the right track.

#9 aceinyerface

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 07:58 AM

Your speed gains are made in practice, not just going faster at a match.

Your accuracy is related to speed, at slow speed, most people are moderately accurate. Speeding that up makes them less accurate.

In practice, you have to learn to be accurate at speed.

Notice all the talk of practice... most bangers I know do almost none and it shows.

If matches are your practice, you are going to have a tough time seeing improvement.

Do your research. Read books, try different training methods, train with someone who kicks ass.

Make up your mind that sucking is unacceptable.
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#10 Slow250

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 02:03 PM

My experience has been... I've pretty much always shot the same points (89-93%).  My speed has gone up with my classification. 

 

USPSA... accuracy without time requirements isn't even a thing.  All that matters is how quickly you can shoot accurately, so attempting to separate the two is a fool's errand.

 

Once you are beyond the point of being able shoot the lower A at 25 yards or the upper A at 10 yards on command (which you likely are) the challenge is increasing your speed without losing that "accuracy" and doing all non-shooting stuff as quickly/efficiently as possible.



#11 Sweet T

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 02:44 PM

The way you talk about stage hit factors leads me to believe you don't yet have a clear understanding of the scoring system.

There are no valid conclusions to be drawn from comparing stage hit factors from match to match, because every stage is different.

The statistics that you need to track over time are percentage of points shot and relative results over time against some other, better, and consistent competitor who shoots the same matches as you.


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#12 Alfred Salveti

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 06:19 PM

In USPSA and on the Streez, you can take TOO much time your accuracy won't matter.  The only thing worse than a slow A is a slow miss.  Yes, it's better to miss fast than miss slow but i t's ideal to get A zones fast.  The people winning are mostly shooting A's and they are doing it faster than everyone else.

 

About as fast is you can shoot is as fast as you can shoot accurately. 

 

Probably a good idea to read Brian Enos's book.  "See what you need to see" helps people that are unnecessarily slow to convince them their sight picture doesn't have to be as good as they thought...or to trust themselves to pull the trigger without a pre recoil flinch or whatever.  "See what you need to see" helps people that are too fast and outshoot their ability to keep the gun/sights on target to and through the trigger pull - and to remain focus to ensure they don't  veered the off target.


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#13 Yard Sale

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 06:51 PM

If you want to win matches you have shoot 97% of the available points and do it quickly. There's no either-or, the game requires both accuracy and speed. How you get one and the other is the subject of books and videos.


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#14 waktasz

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 09:14 PM

If you want to win matches you have shoot 97% of the available points and do it quickly. There's no either-or, the game requires both accuracy and speed. How you get one and the other is the subject of books and videos.

 

97 eh? Fake news


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#15 GuanoLoco

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 10:35 AM

Well?..........Because I'm not going to outright win any matches shooting 85 percent of my total points.

Not true. You could win a match shooting 85% of the points available to everyone - if you were fast enough.

If you shoot 100% of the points but someone else is 15% faster than you - you probably aren’t going to win anything. Why? Because the winner probably earned more than 90% of the points, and Hit Factor is (points earned - penalties) / time.

There are only so many points to earn, and the hit factor value of earning the last few % exceeds the time required to earn them.

Time isn’t bounded the same way ... except by your skill level.

FORCE YOURSELF to learn to go faster AND be more consistent with a reality check goal of earning 90% +/- of available points....

PUSH harder, accept failure *in training*, and learn to do better.
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#16 flyingpig

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 11:30 AM

Some great replies. To be a little more detailed about my situation I would say this. When I say "speed" I guess I mean I've been working on things like starting transitions faster after the last shot of an array, trying to move faster between targets, trying to have my gun up as I come into visible targets, etc etc etc. I think my problem is that when I start pushing those things faster I am having a hard time slowing back down to see my sights. I seem to go ALL fast or ALL slow. I'd be a hell of a lot better if I could do everything fast, and then turn it down a notch when actually seeing my sights and then shooting. Its an all or none type of thing I'm having trouble with.



#17 aceinyerface

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 12:06 PM

There is a distance where you don’t need to see the sights at all to hit A’s on an open target, even if that is just an inch off the end of your barrel.

Go find the outer edge of that distance. Don’t you dare even slow down on that target presentation again, ever!

There is a distance where you just kinda need to see the front sight but not really the rear.

Go find the outer edge of that distance. Don’t stop moving but see a flash of the sights. Don’t ever stop again on that target presentation. Ever!

The rest is “I have to see a good sight picture”. Do what you have to there.
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#18 flyingpig

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 12:48 PM

The way you talk about stage hit factors leads me to believe you don't yet have a clear understanding of the scoring system.

There are no valid conclusions to be drawn from comparing stage hit factors from match to match, because every stage is different.

The statistics that you need to track over time are percentage of points shot and relative results over time against some other, better, and consistent competitor who shoots the same matches as you.

 

I was actually using the hit factor statement as simply kind of a reference point as to how much I was improving. Not meant as a literal statement.



#19 Peally

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 03:42 PM

Shoot a good drill with what you consider acceptable hits. Do it faster and more accurately. Rinse and repeat.

#20 GooldMember

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 10:19 AM

This is one of the simplest games ever. Really, it is. Practice shooting things in the middle. Then practice shooting things in the middle, quicker. Just like I told you in your intro thread:

Since most people go through the typical "not accurate, not fast -> very accurate, not fast -> not accurate, kinda fast -> not accurate, blazing fast -> mostly accurate, mostly fast" cycle. Short circuit that and you will efficiently be laying hate on your compatriots and blazing classifiers like a pro. 

 

Set up a drill and shoot it for us, then report back on what you are performing it in. I want you to set up an El Prez. 10 yards, 1 yard separating them, just like the classifier calls for. Shoot this drill as you would in a match, use that HF as your benchmark. Every time you go to the range after this, set up an El Prez at the beginning (you will probably have 3 target stands out there anyway) and shoot it, and compare your HF to your benchmark. As you improve, you will shoot things more in the middle and quicker, aka better HFs.


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