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Ben Berry BANNED from USPSA?


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#1 Ben

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 09:36 AM

It didn't happen (yet) but I think maybe it could.

I have a fairly detailed post here including screen shots and some context commentary. This commentary is mine, not anyone else's. So, if you are a member of the USPSA BOD and want to come for a scalp then you should take mine. 

Also, the Ben being referenced in the screen caps is BEN BERRY. This is a different person than BEN STOEGER (me). I wasn't threated by Foley for any reason.

The story starts with a post on Instagram and doodie forum. I have included it along with a few replies.

YPmvu5c.png

 

 

ZgwgNj1.png

 

 

On doodie forum, the post looked like this:


FD0Exfm.png

 

 

These posts are also accompanied by an email:


805yx5s.png

 

These communications are followed up by another email:


3439RZG.png

 

 

 

This email is a bit odd for a couple of reasons:

#1 Banning a member for a relatively benign Instagram post is a little bit over the top, even in this organization. I don't think someone has been banned for so l little before. I certainly understand Foley being frustrated that people regularly hang opinions on him that he doesn't necessarily hold and that jokes don't always come across well on the internet. I know from personal experience that "jokes" on facebook can be taken as literal statements to people that speak English as a second language. I toned my facebook page down a lot when I realized that. All that having been said, banning a dude for that post on Instagram would be pretty fucked up. You don't need to search very hard on social media to find posts from much more important people than Ben Berry (no offense Ben) that make USPSA shooters look a lot worse than that one. 

#2 Foley wrote this letter below in 2016. You might want to reread it to refresh your memory. You want to talk about damaging IPSC relationships and bringing the organization into disrepute? You want to talk about looking a bit dumb on the international stage? This letter reads a lot differently for many USPSA shooters when you have the benefit of hindsight.

https://uspsa.org/announcement/318


After a bit, Foley sends this apology:

 

qJua08A.jpg

Of course, all these posts have since been edited or deleted.. so there is nothing more to see here. 

 

Mike:

 

 

Banning people for benign social media posts is bad. Using the power you have as head of this organization in fits of rage is bad. If you post in anger and then are deleting posts, you fucked up.

Please stop it.

If you feel the need to punish someone for posting this stuff, punish me, not Ben Berry.

 



 


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#2 Trigger Warning

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 09:49 AM

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#3 Trigger Warning

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:02 AM

Guys, I just got off a three way Skype with Mike and Ben.  It was a little laggy, what with Mike being at the top of the Eiffel Tower (you’d think they’d have the best signal on the world’s tallest cell phone tower but whatever).  

 

Anyway, controversy over. Both men agreed that no one over twenty-one should be posting on Instagram with hashtags.  Also, instead of Ben being suspended, he’s agreed to shoot PCC for six months and at least eighteen matches, self limiting to fifteen rounds per mag, and he has to post on all social media accounts after each match how much more fun it is to shoot a rifle than a pistol with hashtags including #holstersrdumb #aimingisdumb #practiceisdumb #mikeluvsipsc and #iminoredinscoringbutmajoredinfunPCCrulz!!

 

This is a great outcome and keeps the board from having to figure out how to dial into a conference call without a dial on the phone.


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#4 Mike Foley

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:16 AM

It didn't happen (yet) but I think maybe it could.

I have a fairly detailed post here including screen shots and some context commentary. This commentary is mine, not anyone else's. So, if you are a member of the USPSA BOD and want to come for a scalp then you should take mine.

Also, the Ben being referenced in the screen caps is BEN BERRY. This is a different person than BEN STOEGER (me). I wasn't threated by Foley for any reason.

The story starts with a post on Instagram and doodie forum. I have included it along with a few replies.

YPmvu5c.png


ZgwgNj1.png


On doodie forum, the post looked like this:


FD0Exfm.png


These posts are also accompanied by an email:


805yx5s.png

These communications are followed up by another email:


3439RZG.png



This email is a bit odd for a couple of reasons:

#1 Banning a member for a relatively benign Instagram post is a little bit over the top, even in this organization. I don't think someone has been banned for so l little before. I certainly understand Foley being frustrated that people regularly hang opinions on him that he doesn't necessarily hold and that jokes don't always come across well on the internet. I know from personal experience that "jokes" on facebook can be taken as literal statements to people that speak English as a second language. I toned my facebook page down a lot when I realized that. All that having been said, banning a dude for that post on Instagram would be pretty fucked up. You don't need to search very hard on social media to find posts from much more important people than Ben Berry (no offense Ben) that make USPSA shooters look a lot worse than that one.

#2 Foley wrote this letter below in 2016. You might want to reread it to refresh your memory. You want to talk about damaging IPSC relationships and bringing the organization into disrepute? You want to talk about looking a bit dumb on the international stage? This letter reads a lot differently for many USPSA shooters when you have the benefit of hindsight.

https://uspsa.org/announcement/318


After a bit, Foley sends this apology:

qJua08A.jpg
Of course, all these posts have since been edited or deleted.. so there is nothing more to see here.

Mike:


Banning people for benign social media posts is bad. Using the power you have as head of this organization in fits of rage is bad. If you post in anger and then are deleting posts, you fucked up.

Please stop it.

If you feel the need to punish someone for posting this stuff, punish me, not Ben Berry.



You created him, stands to reason you’d want to protect him. Your account is accurate. I, more than anyone, defend the lack of a code of enforcement for internet posts. I do reserve the right to decide if something is so bad for the org I want to resolve it by extraordinary measures. In the end, two grown men had an exchange that was resolved in minutes, and then one millennial fag likely sent it to the other and it shows up on this dead ass forum. I don’t care. Take it to my board, but again they are usually the ones I have to defend you bitches from. Make a big deal of it, I don’t care. Enjoy.
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#5 Ben

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:22 AM

Will do Mike. ✌️

#6 Mike Foley

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:24 AM

There have to be consequences, and $40 doesn’t buy you any right to say damaging things. I could have asked nicely, but I wasn’t up for a debate. This is my job, and I’m good with jokes and memes and funny stuffs, but saying I hate IPSC while I’m on a trip to make it better and more accessible can cause problems with our friends abroad. The letter I sent about IPSC 2 years ago created the discussions they helped bring change to IPSC leadership, which is on the path to improving shooting all over the world. I’d say that troll was effective.

#7 SlivGod

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:30 AM

This is an interesting predicament because both sides make sense (rare, I know). Getting banned for a tongue-in-cheek social media post is, plainly, dumb; and the Pres also needs to protect the org. 

 

However, it seems like using IG's report feature would have been a much easier way to remedy the situation. Or that would be seen as a form of cowardice and we'd be here anyway. Perhaps it's a lose-lose situation. 


"Forget the necessities, it's the luxuries I can't live without." 


#8 Mike Foley

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:32 AM

Will do Mike. ✌️


Nothing to gain for you here, or anyone. You don’t like the way I squeezed a guy to fix something that I wanted fixed. You don’t do stupid crap like your guy did. You don’t like my tactic. I’m not proud of it either. I’d been awake for about thirty hours at the time, solved the issue, apologized

#9 Ben

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:32 AM

Mike.. come on dude. You have pretty much lost the plot completely at this point.

You are the guy threatening to ban people from USPSA. You aren't defending us.

You are going to now claim your IPSC letter was trolling? Good luck selling that.

I am going to put this up on facebook as well because this dead ass forum aint doing it.



#10 Mike Foley

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:33 AM

This is an interesting predicament because both sides make sense (rare, I know). Getting banned for a tongue-in-cheek social media post is, plainly, dumb; and the Pres also needs to protect the org.

However, it seems like using IG's report feature would have been a much easier way to remedy the situation. Or that would be seen as a form of cowardice and we'd be here anyway. Perhaps it's a lose-lose situation.


I did report it, but that takes longer than I wanted the misconception window open, fwiw.

#11 SlivGod

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:36 AM

I did report it, but that takes longer than I wanted the misconception window open, fwiw.

Ah, got it. Then my point is moot. Carry on.


"Forget the necessities, it's the luxuries I can't live without." 


#12 Mike Foley

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:36 AM

Mike.. come on dude. You have pretty much lost the plot completely at this point.

You are the guy threatening to ban people from USPSA. You aren't defending us.

You are going to now claim your IPSC letter was trolling? Good luck selling that.

I am going to put this up on facebook as well because this dead ass forum aint doing it.


Cool, I’ll offer you the same deal I did Ben B. You don’t appreciate your position in this game. I’ll have you out of Nats by tonight, and out of IPSC events perpetually. You have no friends on the board.

#13 Ben

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:39 AM

Cool, I’ll offer you the same deal I did Ben B. You don’t appreciate your position in this game. I’ll have you out of Nats by tonight, and out of IPSC events perpetually. You have no friends on the board.

 

 

Do what you gotta do. 

dGgFnAh.png


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#14 Mike Foley

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:42 AM

Do what you gotta do.

dGgFnAh.png

Cool, let’s crash the whole show over a simple issue that was resolved. Consider yourself ineligible for competition.

#15 Ben

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:45 AM

Cool, let’s crash the whole show over a simple issue that was resolved. Consider yourself ineligible for competition.

Roger that. I assume I will get something a bit more official confriming this and then we go to a board meeting?



#16 Chuck Anderson

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:46 AM

Ben, you really think this is a one off thing? Like all the sudden out of the blue, without a clue, now your mouth is getting you in trouble?
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#17 Mike Foley

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:50 AM

Yes. The window opens when I write you the letter, which will be this week.. You don’t shoot much USPSA anyway, so it’s likely just Nationals, which you are being withdrawn from, and any IPSC match where I’m asked to confirm you or have written a letter for. If the board doesn’t suspend, terminate, or ban you further, it’ll likely just be a month, and that won’t affect you. You have no skin in game, Ben, so we will work at the level that is important to you, which you prefer.

#18 Ben

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:50 AM

Ben, you really think this is a one off thing? Like all the sudden out of the blue, without a clue, now your mouth is getting you in trouble?


People have been banned lots of times. Banned over this type of shit? Not that I have heard of.


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#19 Ben

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:54 AM

Yes. The window opens when I write you the letter, which will be this week.. You don’t shoot much USPSA anyway, so it’s likely just Nationals, which you are being withdrawn from, and any IPSC match where I’m asked to confirm you or have written a letter for. If the board doesn’t suspend, terminate, or ban you further, it’ll likely just be a month, and that won’t affect you. You have no skin in game, Ben, so we will work at the level that is important to you, which you prefer.

I will send my appeal (of course). I have 6 major USPSA matches on my calendar for the year both before and after nationals. I would like to attend and I got a bunch of new guns to play with. If you guys don't want me around that's your call. I had a good run in this sport and being kicked out by a deranged president because of... well I don't even know why at this point.. well I guess that's as good of a way to go out as any. 

Its your call. I don't really plan to put up a fight. I posted this stuff. I stand behind what I said. If its that damaging then kick me out. Your call.



#20 ron169

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:59 AM

Wow
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