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Ben Berry BANNED from USPSA?


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#741 snark

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 09:00 PM

Nice try, last time I checked miquelet dueling pistols weren’t Prod legal


It's ok, you can shoot Limited Minor. All the cool kids are doing it.

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#742 LeadChucker

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 10:05 PM

Once the heavy DA/SA guns took over Production the division is really nothing more than a dedicated Limited 10 Minor division with holster restrictions. Nothing more nothing less.

Not making any suggestions for changes as I don’t shoot production anymore, but denying the above is just denial.

Enjoy
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#743 Woodieproject

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 11:06 AM

 

 

Secondly, some numbers from 2017's Major Match Results comparing Limited to Production Division participation:

 

Nationals: Lim: 254 Prod. 230

A1: Lim 193 Prod 104

A2: Lim 107 Prod 77

A3: Lim 125 Prod 96

A4: Lim 94 Prod 80

A5: Lim 107 Prod 106

A6: Lim 164 Prod 160

A7: Lim 60 Prod 88

A8: Lim 145 Prod 152

 

Regardless of the fact that the highest concentration of capacity restricted States reside in Areas 2, 7, and 8, the participation numbers between the most popular Division, Limited and Production Division are fairly balanced.

 

Now...with participation numbers such as those above, does Production Division really look like it needs to be fucked with for an extra 5 rounds ?

 

 

 

First, the participation in Nationals and Area matches is good measure of division's lack of popularity but not a great measure of division's popularity. Those are cumulative matches that draw participants from a huge number of local clubs so they will fill well unless it is a division that nobody shoots. A cross section measurement of how many people shoot what division in local matches on any given weekend is a better measure but harder to obtain.

 

Second, why specific division is popular is another discussion. If I were to choose between exhilaration of planning stages around 10 rounds and sticking a reload like a boss two to four times per stage vs being the easiest and cheapest division to enter and be competitive in as a reason for Production popularity, I'd hazard the latter guess.

 

Third, nobody knows if Prod were more popular, less popular, or no diff with 15 or 140 mm mags. I know exactly what happened locally with CO when it went to 140. 6 people signed up for Area match in this division 3 years ago when it was at 10 rounds capacity. Now we get more than that in smaller local weekly club matches, on par with local Production numbers. CO experience may or may not be generalizable to Prod.

 

Fourth, furthering this topic deviates from the original purpose of showing how Foley handles his presidency. So I'll stop now and return back when it is a re-election time.


Bonafide asshole

#744 CheesyD

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 12:37 PM

Quit calling it Prod. You wouldn’t call your country a cunt.


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#745 Woodieproject

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 02:29 PM

No I wouldn't but only because there is no "o" in cunt.
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#746 Nimrod

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 02:30 PM

There is if you blow in it and fill it with air. 


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#747 Sweet T

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 04:11 PM

I shot production 15 today. It fucking sucks.

Ten is truth.

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#748 LeadChucker

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 04:48 PM

I shot production 15 today. It fucking sucks.

Ten is truth.


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With typical 8-8-8-8 uspsa stage design 15 is not a game changer, 16+1 is. I said this throughout the whole Production Optics/CO discussion. 15 only matters if stage designs change. With current stage designs it really does not change reloading options, but does give a bit of wiggle room on steel for those that are steel challenged
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#749 AMNS

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 06:37 PM

Your MDs suck
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#750 LeadChucker

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 07:56 PM

Your MDs suck

Classifiers are pretty much the same with 8-8 and repeat, sometimes 6-6

Stages designs are to appease the SS and Revo shooters

15 rounds is STUPID
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#751 Woodieproject

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 12:05 AM

At the beginning of this thread it was made known that our USPSA Pres [see what I did here, Cheesy] was working feverishly to repair the disrepair between USPSA and IPSC when the whole turmoil started. BenB was hushed at for alleged interference with the process. This is just a reminder and a setup.

 

IPSC shoots 15 rounds in their version of Prod [that's for you again, Cheesy].

 

You called 15 rounds stupid.

 

That means you're saying IPSC is stupid.

 

This directly undermines President's effort to repair the broken relationships.

 

Consider yourself suspended.


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#752 bailey

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 04:08 AM

I'm just a dumbass but what would be wrong with this?

 

Kill Limited 10 which is not needed. In 10 round states you just load 10 like in Open.

 

Break Limited into two divisions, one with major scoring and one with minor scoring. There is not and never will be equity between the two scoring protocols.Limited Minor would allow a lot of Production shooters to move in order to have higher round counts in mags and to do other "upgrades" to guns and belt arrangement. After a while most Production shooters like that idea and thats what is driving all the changes to Production rules.

 

Leave Production as is (or as it was a few months ago). 

 

Advantages....kill a division that is not needed and seldom entered if the shooter has a choice. Make scoring more equitable for major and minor Limited shooters.Reduce the rules pressure on Production which seems like a workable division especially for new USPSA shooters.


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#753 GuanoLoco

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 07:05 AM

You forgot - eliminate Revolver division, but allow Revo 10 major and Revo 12 minor in Production.
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#754 Sad Sack

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 07:45 AM

I'm just a dumbass...

 

I stopped reading at this point.  You were saying?


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No one likes me, and I don't care.


#755 u sofa king we todd ed

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 05:54 PM

You forgot - eliminate Revolver division, but allow Revo 10 major and Revo 12 minor in Production.

Eliminate Pistol Caliber Revolver, but add Rifle/Carbine Caliber Revolver.

 

https://www.taurusus...tegory=Revolver



#756 GuanoLoco

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 06:57 PM

I’m pretty sure that will make 165+ PF.
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#757 MemphisMechanic

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 12:30 AM

With typical 8-8-8-8 uspsa stage design...


That isn’t typical stage design. That is lazy and shitty stage design.

We’ve largely killed it around here. Catch up. Nationwide we need to ban “port with 4... port with 4...” stages. Not Ben Berry.

After all, that’ll make us more like IPSC. And more like good USPSA has always been.
I won an IDPA match once. It was neat.

#758 Matt1

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 03:33 AM

The US boys who shot the EEO over the weekend seemed to enjoy the IPSC style stages 🤔

They did ok too


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#759 Nimrod

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 05:02 AM

38 pages. ~800 drifting posts. Now that the original contestants are back to spooning Doodie returns to it's old status. 


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#760 Motosapiens

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 06:49 AM

With typical 8-8-8-8 uspsa stage design 15 is not a game changer, 16+1 is.

 

I don't even know who was president the last time I saw an 8-8-8-8 stage. Certainly not at the last several majors.


2013 National Champion C class  Limited 10





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