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Shoot Off Rules


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#1 waktasz

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 04:08 PM

I'm trying to work out how to run a mini tournament with a shootoff at my local match in the future, based on hearing discussion about it on Ben's Podcast (after dark #2)

 

Here's what I have for rules, thoughts?  Am I missing anything obvious that could lead to incessant bitching from the competitors?

 

 

 

The USPSA match today will determine the rankings for the shoot off. The shoot-off will be a handicapped, knockdown steel, double elimination tournament with the following rules.

The top FOUR shooters in each CLASS will be ranked, according to overall finish, and placed into a bracket style double elimination tournament. If there are not four shooters in each class, the match director will select a shooter from the next lower class to fill that spot.

 

The higher seeded shooter will get to choose his side (right or left). Everyone will start with 5 pieces of steel.  One piece of steel will be added for each class above D class, and one additional piece of steel added for optics division shooters. PCC will start stock on belt, loaded mag inserted, empty chamber.

At the start signal, shooters must knock down all of their targets, and must perform one reload before hitting the final target. Failure to perform the reload or hitting the last target before hitting all other targets is an automatic loss.


Class	Additional Plates
D	0
C	+1
B	+2
A	+3
M	+4
GM	+5
Open, Carry Optics, PCC	+1 additional

REF/Calibration rules: In the event a plate does not fall, a hit in the calibration zone of the target counts as that target being down. If there is a hit outside of the calibration zone and the target does not fall, the shooter must hit it again to knock it down. 
No reshoots. No calibration calls.


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#2 3gundago

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 05:49 PM

pcc should start with the gun disassembled.


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#3 SlivGod

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 06:27 PM

That looks pretty good to me. If it's of any help, I believe the gang at Alpha Range recently put on such a shoot-off. You could try hitting up any of those guys for details on what worked well and what didn't. 


"Forget the necessities, it's the luxuries I can't live without." 


#4 Doughnut

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 11:36 PM

PCC should be + 2 additionally

#5 Gecko 46

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 12:30 AM


At the start signal, shooters must knock down all of their targets, and must perform one reload before hitting the final target.

 

Last time I did this I used basically the same wordage and most everyone did the mag change prior to shooting. If that's ok then it's all good. If not you might want to insert some gamer words. Next time I do it I'm going to specify at least one target has to be engaged (not necessarily hit) before the mag change.



#6 shmella

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 05:01 AM

PCC should be + 2 additionally

Just make PCC +10 so nobody shows up with one.


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#7 waktasz

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 05:37 AM

lol good idea. There are only 3 of those guys that ever show up to this club and two of them are 100 years old and 400 pounds. 

I think the mandatory reload will balance it out. 

 

We are going to do a test run of this on some upcoming Friday with a handful of dudes to see how the handicaps all work out and tweak it if necessary, then try to run it for the September match



#8 Matt1

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 06:16 AM

Make sure to overlap the last popper for each shooter so you can tell who won (the one on the bottom) in close races.


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#9 mhop

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 06:26 AM

I've shot at matches that have done this a lot. I would suggest adding in a having to do the reload after first steel hit and before last steel hit.

I would just do a random order bracket the handicapping system makes it fair across all skill levels.

On the handicapping I would add 1 above open for pcc and have them start with stock on belt strong hand at side weak hand holding gun

#10 maximis228

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 06:46 AM

We did something very similar at an end of season shoot of this year for our indoor club. -1 plate per class difference and -1 more if you dont have an optic and the other person does. We did this in a double elimination format.



#11 waktasz

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 07:39 AM

Make sure to overlap the last popper for each shooter so you can tell who won (the one on the bottom) in close races.


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We have one of the MGM ones with two poppers on the same base that overlap like that :) 


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#12 waktasz

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 07:43 AM

I've shot at matches that have done this a lot. I would suggest adding in a having to do the reload after first steel hit and before last steel hit.

I would just do a random order bracket the handicapping system makes it fair across all skill levels.

On the handicapping I would add 1 above open for pcc and have them start with stock on belt strong hand at side weak hand holding gun

 

You could, but then there's a chance all the good shooters knock each other out in the first two rounds, and nobody wants to see two D class dudes duke it out for the title. 

 

 

Do you think PCC is really such an advantage? The guys around here are going to take 4 seconds to do a reload. I guess if a real PCC shooter shows up we all might be in trouble. 



#13 MemphisMechanic

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 08:38 AM

Well... I’ve only shot PCC on the clock twice. This was my first ever attempt at such a reload. I’d practiced in dryfire several times that week, but that’s it.

So here’s a seriously sketchy reload on a PCC where the shooter misses the mag with half his hand and has to re-grip:

https://instagram.com/p/BljIw8Hlv8B/

It’s way faster than what you’re describing (probably because your guys lack a decent magwell and roll the gun to load it like a pistol) but I would expect to be 0.4-0.5 quicker than this before very long at all.

Eventually even your local chickrifle minor retards are gonna figure out that they need to copy Max’s technique. That’s what I did.
https://www.instagra...d=1kfgc21c6b2v7
I won an IDPA match once. It was neat.

#14 mhop

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 06:30 PM

Your way has a guarantee of knocking out a high class shooter. Trust me class doesn't mean a better bout.

My way on the PCC is not as harsh as your empty chamber

You could, but then there's a chance all the good shooters knock each other out in the first two rounds, and nobody wants to see two D class dudes duke it out for the title.


Do you think PCC is really such an advantage? The guys around here are going to take 4 seconds to do a reload. I guess if a real PCC shooter shows up we all might be in trouble.



#15 BettieWhite

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 11:46 AM

Last time I did this I used basically the same wordage and most everyone did the mag change prior to shooting. If that's ok then it's all good. If not you might want to insert some gamer words. Next time I do it I'm going to specify at least one target has to be engaged (not necessarily hit) before the mag change.

 

Definitely clarify this to prevent buttfuckery and subsequent butthurt...

 

"...after first shot fired and before last..."?


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#16 GooldMember

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Posted 29 July 2018 - 07:14 PM

Before the shoot off after Oregon state champs we actually timed it... and a wrists above shoulders draw vs mag inserted, bolt closed, stock on belt hand on handguard was just about perfect in time.

#17 MemphisMechanic

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Posted 29 July 2018 - 08:08 PM

Before the shoot off after Oregon state champs we actually timed it... and a wrists above shoulders draw vs mag inserted, bolt closed, stock on belt hand on handguard was just about perfect in time.


With the PCC loaded and chambered with safety on, correct?
I won an IDPA match once. It was neat.

#18 GooldMember

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 03:26 PM

With the PCC loaded and chambered with safety on, correct?

Negative. Empty chamber, hammer down. 

 

Rack it and go. Skilled pistol shooter draw to plate rack and skilled rifle shooter rack and go is damn near the same. 


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#19 MemphisMechanic

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 05:16 PM

Okay. That’s more believeable.
I won an IDPA match once. It was neat.

#20 3gundago

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 11:17 AM

This


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