13 replies to this topic

[toothandnail]

I know you guys warned me - but I jumped in the USPSA matches at my range deal.

 

Planning a natural terrain stage (woods run) at an upcoming match, in Outlaw matches we use a well defined (cleared ) trail, with a 1' high rope "fault line" where necessary. Most of the time a fault line is not necessary because the is No Advantage, to leaving the trail . If you do your bush whacking through the brush, thorns, ticks, chiggers, etc. and will be much slower.

BUT,

Already have one guy saying "you can't do THAT in a USPSA match" 

My answer is the rope is NOT a Fault line it's a Barrier, It's not hard to raise it if that low is a problem.
I will have "appropriate" legal fault lines Where/IF,  necessary

 

What say the Doodie Range Lawyers? ?

 

 

[ToddKS]

Set random traps outside the trail. Pour buckets of old paint on the ground, piles of dog shit, etc. If someone wants to leave the trail, make them pay.

[Cranky Gunsmith]

It appears fault lines must be fixed to the shooting area surface.

2.2.1.1 Shooting Boxes and Fault Lines should be constructed of wooden boards or other suitable material, must be fixed firmly in place, and provide both physical and visual references to competitors. For hard ground surfaces clear of debris, 0.75 inch material is the minimum allowable size. On other range surfaces, such as covered with turf, sand, gravel, wood chips or similar, thicker material which rises at least 1.5 inches above the surface is recommended

It could be an off-limits line, but they have to be lifted up and not closer than 2 feet from a shooting area.

2.2.1.5 Off-Limits Lines may be used to define an area of the range floor which has been declared off-limits. The written stage briefing must identify the presence and location of Off-Limits Lines (if any). The off-limits area must be clearly delineated with rope, caution tape or other materials and must be at least 2 feet high and at least 2 feet from any Fault Line or Shooting Box. (See Rule 10.2.11). Crossing an off-limits line will result in a zero for the stage. Openings in off limits lines are allowed for RO access only; competitors may not use the openings to enter any off limits areas or move through the course of fire in a manner not indicated by the off limits lines. The lines are deemed to extend through the open areas.

[toothandnail]

It appears fault lines must be fixed to the shooting area surface.

2.2.1.1 Shooting Boxes and Fault Lines should be constructed of wooden boards or other suitable material, must be fixed firmly in place, and provide both physical and visual references to competitors. For hard ground surfaces clear of debris, 0.75 inch material is the minimum allowable size. On other range surfaces, such as covered with turf, sand, gravel, wood chips or similar, thicker material which rises at least 1.5 inches above the surface is recommended

It could be an off-limits line, but they have to be lifted up and not closer than 2 feet from a shooting area.

2.2.1.5 Off-Limits Lines may be used to define an area of the range floor which has been declared off-limits. The written stage briefing must identify the presence and location of Off-Limits Lines (if any). The off-limits area must be clearly delineated with rope, caution tape or other materials and must be at least 2 feet high and at least 2 feet from any Fault Line or Shooting Box. (See Rule 10.2.11). Crossing an off-limits line will result in a zero for the stage. Openings in off limits lines are allowed for RO access only; competitors may not use the openings to enter any off limits areas or move through the course of fire in a manner not indicated by the off limits lines. The lines are deemed to extend through the open areas.

I've read that,
a barrier would be neither, it seems it could be crossed without penalty, but there would be no advantage to do so. But also define the shooting area. 
I could run a couple hundred feet of ground fault lines, but a rope barrier is easier and accomplishes nearly the same thing.

Am I wrong?

[Colonel_klink]

If the purpose is to funnel shooters from position to position I don’t see the issue, walls and barrels are are used in this manner.

Would just have to build whatever size boxes for your shooting positions and maybe write in the brief “cannot shoot over, around or through off limits areas”. Don’t think you’d have to fault line the entire stage, just make sure the positions are clearly defined.

Someone will be along shortly to correct me if I’m wrong, haha.

[Cranky Gunsmith]

A couple years ago I helped set up a stage with no fault lines. It was challenging to control the angles of target engagement so there were no shoot throughs, but it was really fun to shoot.

We used barrels and small walls to control the angles of engagement. Most targets were on the perimeter of the shooting area, only a couple in the middle. Would this sort of thing work for your jungle run?

[Just Some Random Hoser]

Was the Written Stage Brief a well thought out, articulate document, stating everything that it should have, or, did it just say shoot as the targets become available?

[toothandnail]

A couple years ago I helped set up a stage with no fault lines. It was challenging to control the angles of target engagement so there were no shoot throughs, but it was really fun to shoot.

We used barrels and small walls to control the angles of engagement. Most targets were on the perimeter of the shooting area, only a couple in the middle. Would this sort of thing work for your jungle run?

Sounds similar

Trail will go through the middle(winding), targets on either side of the trail so there is no benefit to get off the trail. I can use trees and other natural features to limit engagement angles/positions.

There will be a start line to designate shooting area, as well as an end fault line to stop. Just an open trail in between

[Cranky Gunsmith]

The no fault line stage I shot started seated at a table and required 2 targets be engaged from the start box. After that it was engage targets as they become available. There was literally no fault line on the berm. It was a small club and they were short on fault line.

Was the Written Stage Brief a well thought out, articulate document, stating everything that it should have, or, did it just say shoot as the targets become available?

[GuanoLoco]

Re-describe the rope as a simulated wall that extends from the ground up to infinity.

[waktasz]

Re-describe the rope as a simulated wall that extends from the ground up to infinity.

 

Then you can't shoot over the top of it

[waktasz]

I think you could just use ropes and call them fault lines.

 

2.2.1.1  Shooting  Boxes  and  Fault  Lines  should  be  constructed  of 

wooden boards or other suitable material, must be fixed firmly 

in  place,  and  provide  both  physical  and  visual  references  to 

competitors. 

 

 

I think a firmly affixed rope than is clearly in place to act as a fault line could be argued as legal.

[Kraj]

[quote name="Cranky Gunsmith" post="191340" timestamp="1537148037"]

"It appears fault lines must be fixed to the shooting area surface.

2.2.1.1 Shooting Boxes and Fault Lines should be constructed of wooden boards or other suitable material, must be fixed firmly in place, and provide both physical and visual references to competitors. For hard ground surfaces clear of debris, 0.75 inch material is the minimum allowable size. On other range surfaces, such as covered with turf, sand, gravel, wood chips or similar, thicker material which rises at least 1.5 inches above the surface is recommended."


From the glossary..everything after the word should basically has no weight.

Should .........Optional but highly recommended.

[toothandnail]

If I use rope, I would call it a barrier, you CAN shoot over it, you MAY cross it. Even if crossed shooter would gain ZERO advantage.
Actually the more I read/discuss it, there is no need for adding anything. There will be a clearly defined trail, if shooters want to go off the trail. Be my guest, it will hinder their time.