Jump to content


Photo

Question about barriers/fault lines in a natural terrain stage


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 toothandnail

toothandnail

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts

Posted 16 September 2018 - 06:48 PM

I know you guys warned me - but I jumped in the USPSA matches at my range deal. :D

 

Planning a natural terrain stage (woods run) at an upcoming match, in Outlaw matches we use a well defined (cleared ) trail, with a 1' high rope "fault line" where necessary. Most of the time a fault line is not necessary because the is No Advantage, to leaving the trail . If you do your bush whacking through the brush, thorns, ticks, chiggers, etc. and will be much slower.

BUT,

Already have one guy saying "you can't do THAT in a USPSA match" 

My answer is the rope is NOT a Fault line it's a Barrier, It's not hard to raise it if that low is a problem.
I will have "appropriate" legal fault lines Where/IF,  necessary

 

What say the Doodie Range Lawyers? ?

:ph34r:  :ph34r:

 



#2 ToddKS

ToddKS

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,511 posts
  • LocationGetting killed in the streets

Posted 16 September 2018 - 07:25 PM

Set random traps outside the trail. Pour buckets of old paint on the ground, piles of dog shit, etc. If someone wants to leave the trail, make them pay.

#3 Cranky Gunsmith

Cranky Gunsmith

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 415 posts

Posted 16 September 2018 - 07:33 PM

It appears fault lines must be fixed to the shooting area surface.

2.2.1.1 Shooting Boxes and Fault Lines should be constructed of wooden boards or other suitable material, must be fixed firmly in place, and provide both physical and visual references to competitors. For hard ground surfaces clear of debris, 0.75 inch material is the minimum allowable size. On other range surfaces, such as covered with turf, sand, gravel, wood chips or similar, thicker material which rises at least 1.5 inches above the surface is recommended

It could be an off-limits line, but they have to be lifted up and not closer than 2 feet from a shooting area.

2.2.1.5 Off-Limits Lines may be used to define an area of the range floor which has been declared off-limits. The written stage briefing must identify the presence and location of Off-Limits Lines (if any). The off-limits area must be clearly delineated with rope, caution tape or other materials and must be at least 2 feet high and at least 2 feet from any Fault Line or Shooting Box. (See Rule 10.2.11). Crossing an off-limits line will result in a zero for the stage. Openings in off limits lines are allowed for RO access only; competitors may not use the openings to enter any off limits areas or move through the course of fire in a manner not indicated by the off limits lines. The lines are deemed to extend through the open areas.



#4 toothandnail

toothandnail

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts

Posted 16 September 2018 - 08:18 PM

It appears fault lines must be fixed to the shooting area surface.

2.2.1.1 Shooting Boxes and Fault Lines should be constructed of wooden boards or other suitable material, must be fixed firmly in place, and provide both physical and visual references to competitors. For hard ground surfaces clear of debris, 0.75 inch material is the minimum allowable size. On other range surfaces, such as covered with turf, sand, gravel, wood chips or similar, thicker material which rises at least 1.5 inches above the surface is recommended

It could be an off-limits line, but they have to be lifted up and not closer than 2 feet from a shooting area.

2.2.1.5 Off-Limits Lines may be used to define an area of the range floor which has been declared off-limits. The written stage briefing must identify the presence and location of Off-Limits Lines (if any). The off-limits area must be clearly delineated with rope, caution tape or other materials and must be at least 2 feet high and at least 2 feet from any Fault Line or Shooting Box. (See Rule 10.2.11). Crossing an off-limits line will result in a zero for the stage. Openings in off limits lines are allowed for RO access only; competitors may not use the openings to enter any off limits areas or move through the course of fire in a manner not indicated by the off limits lines. The lines are deemed to extend through the open areas.

I've read that,
a barrier would be neither, it seems it could be crossed without penalty, but there would be no advantage to do so. But also define the shooting area. 
I could run a couple hundred feet of ground fault lines, but a rope barrier is easier and accomplishes nearly the same thing.

Am I wrong?



#5 Colonel_klink

Colonel_klink

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 198 posts

Posted 17 September 2018 - 08:19 AM

If the purpose is to funnel shooters from position to position I don’t see the issue, walls and barrels are are used in this manner.

Would just have to build whatever size boxes for your shooting positions and maybe write in the brief “cannot shoot over, around or through off limits areas”. Don’t think you’d have to fault line the entire stage, just make sure the positions are clearly defined.

Someone will be along shortly to correct me if I’m wrong, haha.
  • toothandnail likes this

#6 Cranky Gunsmith

Cranky Gunsmith

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 415 posts

Posted 17 September 2018 - 10:54 AM

A couple years ago I helped set up a stage with no fault lines. It was challenging to control the angles of target engagement so there were no shoot throughs, but it was really fun to shoot.

We used barrels and small walls to control the angles of engagement. Most targets were on the perimeter of the shooting area, only a couple in the middle. Would this sort of thing work for your jungle run?

#7 Just Some Random Hoser

Just Some Random Hoser

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,257 posts

Posted 17 September 2018 - 05:08 PM

Was the Written Stage Brief a well thought out, articulate document, stating everything that it should have, or, did it just say shoot as the targets become available?

#8 toothandnail

toothandnail

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts

Posted 17 September 2018 - 09:04 PM

A couple years ago I helped set up a stage with no fault lines. It was challenging to control the angles of target engagement so there were no shoot throughs, but it was really fun to shoot.

We used barrels and small walls to control the angles of engagement. Most targets were on the perimeter of the shooting area, only a couple in the middle. Would this sort of thing work for your jungle run?

Sounds similar

Trail will go through the middle(winding), targets on either side of the trail so there is no benefit to get off the trail. I can use trees and other natural features to limit engagement angles/positions.

There will be a start line to designate shooting area, as well as an end fault line to stop. Just an open trail in between



#9 Cranky Gunsmith

Cranky Gunsmith

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 415 posts

Posted 18 September 2018 - 07:51 AM

The no fault line stage I shot started seated at a table and required 2 targets be engaged from the start box. After that it was engage targets as they become available. There was literally no fault line on the berm. It was a small club and they were short on fault line.

Was the Written Stage Brief a well thought out, articulate document, stating everything that it should have, or, did it just say shoot as the targets become available?



#10 GuanoLoco

GuanoLoco

    Minister of Culture

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,245 posts
  • LocationMy Safe Space

Posted 19 September 2018 - 11:12 AM

Re-describe the rope as a simulated wall that extends from the ground up to infinity.


Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Doodie Project?

You'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

In Doodie, Veritas.

"You might be a little thin-skinned for this forum". -Scott.

#11 waktasz

waktasz

    Admin

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,090 posts

Posted 19 September 2018 - 07:29 PM

Re-describe the rope as a simulated wall that extends from the ground up to infinity.

 

Then you can't shoot over the top of it



#12 waktasz

waktasz

    Admin

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,090 posts

Posted 19 September 2018 - 07:33 PM

I think you could just use ropes and call them fault lines.

 

2.2.1.1  Shooting  Boxes  and  Fault  Lines  should  be  constructed  of 
wooden boards or other suitable material, must be fixed firmly 
in  place,  and  provide  both  physical  and  visual  references  to 
competitors. 
 
 
I think a firmly affixed rope than is clearly in place to act as a fault line could be argued as legal.


#13 Kraj

Kraj

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts

Posted 19 September 2018 - 08:50 PM

[quote name="Cranky Gunsmith" post="191340" timestamp="1537148037"]

"It appears fault lines must be fixed to the shooting area surface.

2.2.1.1 Shooting Boxes and Fault Lines should be constructed of wooden boards or other suitable material, must be fixed firmly in place, and provide both physical and visual references to competitors. For hard ground surfaces clear of debris, 0.75 inch material is the minimum allowable size. On other range surfaces, such as covered with turf, sand, gravel, wood chips or similar, thicker material which rises at least 1.5 inches above the surface is recommended."


From the glossary..everything after the word should basically has no weight.

Should .........Optional but highly recommended.
  • Motosapiens likes this

#14 toothandnail

toothandnail

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts

Posted 19 September 2018 - 09:01 PM

If I use rope, I would call it a barrier, you CAN shoot over it, you MAY cross it. Even if crossed shooter would gain ZERO advantage.
Actually the more I read/discuss it, there is no need for adding anything. There will be a clearly defined trail, if shooters want to go off the trail. Be my guest, it will hinder their time.


  • Motosapiens likes this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users