38 replies to this topic

[MemphisMechanic]

The majority of us who shoot Production enjoy it because of the 10rd limit. Not in spite of it.

[bailey]

If you don't like Production rules shoot Limited. BTW you'll hate major/minor scoring way more than 10 rounds if you shoot 9mm. There is no excuse for scoring a division two ways when they are not equitable. To paraphrase an old argument about another subject, two ways to score the same competition is inherently not equitable and can't be fixed except by scoring everyone the same. 

 

Major/minor scoring is flat stupid and everybody knows it. This organization is willing to do radical things, like adding PCC but it won't address the simple issue of unfair scoring even when the rules push the concept of competitive equity.

 

There is only one reason for many competitors pushing for capacity (and other equipment) changes in Production, they don't want to shoot a a division with dual scoring. Something is wrong when we can put rifles in a pistol match but we can't fix something that is broken.

[Just Some Random Hoser]

No......I’m my opinion, it’s just dumb to have a 15, 17 or 18 round magazine provided by the manufacturer, which the gun is approved for by use in Production division, but some old fuckers years ago thought it was a good idea to limit the capacity to an arbitrary number.
Why make it 10, why not 7 like in SS, why not 12?
Let me guess, because a few states now have 10 round magazine capacity, right?
Well, how is open scored in those states? Open-10? I don’t see that division in Practiscore when I look for NY, NJ or CA.
All I’m saying is that if a gun manufacturer makes a provides a magazine for use we should be using that, he gun is allowed in the list anyways.

[waktasz]

Major/minor scoring in Limited isn't unfair. It's been that way for how many years?You could buy equipment to meet the rules, or you can bitch on the internet like a know nothing clown, or a 3 gunner which is likely what you are. Did I guess right?

[waktasz]

No......I’m my opinion, it’s just dumb to have a 15, 17 or 18 round magazine provided by the manufacturer, which the gun is approved for by use in Production division, but some old fuckers years ago thought it was a good idea to limit the capacity to an arbitrary number.
Why make it 10, why not 7 like in SS, why not 12?
Let me guess, because a few states now have 10 round magazine capacity, right?
Well, how is open scored in those states? Open-10? I don’t see that division in Practiscore when I look for NY, NJ or CA.
All I’m saying is that if a gun manufacturer makes a provides a magazine for use we should be using that, he gun is allowed in the list anyways.

 

Then everyone will be shooting XDMs because they hold 19 rounds. Gross.

 

Anyway, Production is the division where you have to reload a lot. If you don't like it, there are others (too many actually) to choose from.

[GooldMember]

If you don't like Production rules shoot Limited. BTW you'll hate major/minor scoring way more than 10 rounds if you shoot 9mm. There is no excuse for scoring a division two ways when they are not equitable. To paraphrase an old argument about another subject, two ways to score the same competition is inherently not equitable and can't be fixed except by scoring everyone the same. 

 

Major/minor scoring is flat stupid and everybody knows it. This organization is willing to do radical things, like adding PCC but it won't address the simple issue of unfair scoring even when the rules push the concept of competitive equity.

 

There is only one reason for many competitors pushing for capacity (and other equipment) changes in Production, they don't want to shoot a a division with dual scoring. Something is wrong when we can put rifles in a pistol match but we can't fix something that is broken.

Minor in divisions that allow major isn't supposed to be equitable. It is a punishment for not making PF (aka being a whiner), as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

Then everyone will be shooting XDMs because they hold 19 rounds. Gross.

 

Anyway, Production is the division where you have to reload a lot. If you don't like it, there are others (too many actually) to choose from.

Luckily the CZ P09 also holds 19, and it is actually pretty nice in my opinion. 

[GuanoLoco]

Explain to me this Mr. Wizard....Why is it allowed to let PCC , Open and Limited load up to magazine capacity; and in the case of PCC sometimes even up to like 50+ rounds but still keep Production down to 10?
It's a conspiracy I tell you...

Go shoot your Production gun in Lim-minor and STFU.

[MemphisMechanic]

Minor in divisions that allow major isn't supposed to be equitable. It is a punishment for not making PF (aka being a whiner), as far as I’m concerned.

Agreed.

You have the option of shooting Lim Minor if you want to have fun with your highcap 9 carry gun or something, or buying a .40 if you decide you want to chase the win.

[Stranger Danger]

If you don’t like all the rules of production, don’t fucking shoot it. Problem solved! If like don’t like a division that has major/minor scoring in it, don’t fucking shoot it. If you like shooting USPSA, pick a division that suits you and shit the fuck up! There is nothing tragically wrong with the rules. Rules like laws get adjusted all the time. Don’t be the dickhead that worked to get them changed just so your pussy won’t flare up so much.

[Harry Palmer]

Anyway, Production is the division where you have to reload a lot.

 

No, Revolver is the division where you have to reload ALOT!  Which is why I don't shoot retarded, whoops, I meant revolver.  I shoot Open, Limited, Production, and PCC in USPSA and in Steel Challenge and wait for it......I also shoot 3 Gun. 

 

I don't have any problem with Production staying 10 rounds and I'm happy with Limited and Open having Major/Minor scoring.  There are a couple of guys locally that shoot 9mm minor in Limited for the additional mag capacity and do quite well, like winning Limited division at the West Coast Brass Fest match.  There are a couple of matches locally that almost make me want to add Single Stack to my schedule and for one of those matches I would consider shooting minor and for the others I would definitely shoot major.

[Motosapiens]

Explain to me this Mr. Wizard....Why is it allowed to let PCC , Open and Limited load up to magazine capacity; and in the case of PCC sometimes even up to like 50+ rounds but still keep Production down to 10?

It's a conspiracy I tell you...

open an limited are only allowed to load to whatever can fit in the prescribed length, which is effectively a prescribed round count. not much different than production, which can only load up to the prescribed round count.

[Dutchman195]

Minor in divisions that allow major isn't supposed to be equitable. It is a punishment for not making PF (aka being a whiner), as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

 

What about SS where Minor is more prevalent than major these days. And people shoot in minor SS because they just do whatever production shooters do stage plan wise. 

 

I think THAT is fucked up. Major only in SS.

[Motosapiens]

What about SS where Minor is more prevalent than major these days. And people shoot in minor SS because they just do whatever production shooters do stage plan wise. 

 

I think THAT is fucked up. Major only in SS.

#poundyoutoo, you poor thing. you're a victim!

[Dutchman195]

#poundyoutoo, you poor thing. you're a victim!

#metoo

[waktasz]

What about SS where Minor is more prevalent than major these days. And people shoot in minor SS because they just do whatever production shooters do stage plan wise. 

 

I think THAT is fucked up. Major only in SS.

 

I think SS is doing it best to be honest in regards to giving real options to both major and minor. There are advantages to both. In most cases I'd want to shoot Minor, but Major was what won the Whirld Chute. 

[GooldMember]

SS and Revo are the two exceptions, but seeing as how they are tiny divisions I wasn't really including them. 

 

SS is the only division that both can be competitive. 

 

Revo is the only division that shooting minor when both are available is always the correct answer. 

[Dutchman195]

SS and Revo are the two exceptions, but seeing as how they are tiny divisions I wasn't really including them. 

 

SS is the only division that both can be competitive. 

 

Revo is the only division that shooting minor when both are available is always the correct answer. 

Just my experience, but the majority of level 2s I shot last year were over the top minor friendly. 7 out of 9 stages in the match were 3 10 round positions. I dont consider that very 'fair' but I also understand no one gives two shits about my bitching. #stoppingpower

[snark]

Go shoot the Single Stack Classic (was: USPSA SS Nationals) if you want to see a minor-need-not-apply SS match.

 

and a couple dudes that were there thought Major was a 5% bonus at the last Werld Shute.

 

If your L2s are 10-rounds-per-position wide-open-target suckfests, then that's a different problem.

[MGoo]

I wonder why people can't figure out that division rules are arbitrary by nature. You have to just draw lines in the sand. If you don't like 10 round in Production you have 3 choices, 1 shoot a different division, 2 stop shooting all together and go on a hunger strike, to protest, 3 start your own shooting organization and make your own rules......