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The Tyranny of Cleaning Cases


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#21 ShootsLikeaDog

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 04:45 PM

Lol - dirty brass! That is the least of your problems...

You're reloading for the first time on a 550 which means the probability of you double charging a case and blowing your shit up is virtually assured.

 

If you'd been dry-firing a stock Glock 19 every single fucking day for seven months you too would consider this more of a feature than a bug.

 

You're in the wrong forum.  Benos will love you moar.

 

So tempting, especially since I could also join the Race to C Class while I was there.  But, no, I already made an account here instead of there, so you're stuck with me!


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#22 Will

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 06:01 PM

Seriously, watch your shit on the 550. Talk to any reputable gunsmith (yeah that's an oxymoron- kinda like an "honest" horse trader), and they will tell you the number one source of double charge kaboom's is the lack of auto indexing on the 550.

If you can, I'd dump the 550 and grab a 650. I'd even take a hornaday over a 550.

#23 Vagetarian

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 07:58 PM

Seriously, watch your shit on the 550. Talk to any reputable gunsmith (yeah that's an oxymoron- kinda like an "honest" horse trader), and they will tell you the number one source of double charge kaboom's is the lack of auto indexing on the 550.

If you can, I'd dump the 550 and grab a 650. I'd even take a hornaday over a 550.

650's are the number one source of squibs so...

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#24 GuanoLoco

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 08:56 PM

Buy some clean brass, hoard it in a fit of reloading decision paralysis, then switch to a less mentally strenuous hobby.
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#25 Roland THG

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 09:04 PM

Clean brass just to get rid of mud/rocks/grit. That's all that is necessary. 

 

The 550 is just fine. I loaded thousands and thousands of rounds on mine with no issues.

 

The trick is to get a light and look into each case to check powder level. The second trick is: don't try to catch up a case if it is has a problem. 

 

For example, you are running 9mm and you size a case and when you seat the primer you realize the primer pocket is crimped and the primer won't seat. Set the case aside and and advance the shellholder. Advance the empty space on the shellholder all the way around. If you put another case in the space you will double charge the case that you just charged when the new case is resized.

 

The last trick is to make sure you make the full handle stroke on the press.

 

That said, I upgraded last year to a 650 with bullet and case feeders. Much more expensive but much faster.


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#26 MEISTERB

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 01:21 PM

Dirty carboned brass goes through the machine easier than clean stuff.

Ive done it when needed. It will be fine.

Ps rocks break decapping pins.

He's right.. keep a supply of recapping pins handy.....and you only need to clean your brass if you have non-carbide dies. Carbide=GTG

FYI I wet tumble without pins....armour all carwash and a pinch of lemishine....dry in dehydrator. It doesn't take that much time

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#27 Fishyjoe

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 05:21 PM

Seriously, I read a thread about this on B-Anus once about a guy. It didn’t happen to me but this one dude who used to know a gun smith or something 550 worst Dillon ever. Bruh.


FIFY
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#28 ShootsLikeaDog

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 08:33 PM

Seriously, watch your shit on the 550. Talk to any reputable gunsmith (yeah that's an oxymoron- kinda like an "honest" horse trader), and they will tell you the number one source of double charge kaboom's is the lack of auto indexing on the 550.

If you can, I'd dump the 550 and grab a 650. I'd even take a hornaday over a 550.

 

I am pretty fond of my face and would like to keep it, so I will watch carefully.  With that said, the manual operation of the 550 was actually one of the reasons I got it.  I like learning about things from the bottom up.  Next upgrade will probably be a ROBOT DRIVE 1050.

 

Buy some clean brass, hoard it in a fit of reloading decision paralysis, then switch to a less mentally strenuous hobby.

 

This is a good idea, but fun fact: If you give them magnets and celebrate when oddball rounds are found, getting your relatives to help you sort 58 lbs of range pickup brass can be a fun Thanksgiving activity!  So now I'm committed to the Goat's Ass Brass plan.

 

Clean brass just to get rid of mud/rocks/grit. That's all that is necessary. 

 

The 550 is just fine. I loaded thousands and thousands of rounds on mine with no issues.

 

The trick is to get a light and look into each case to check powder level. The second trick is: don't try to catch up a case if it is has a problem. 

 

For example, you are running 9mm and you size a case and when you seat the primer you realize the primer pocket is crimped and the primer won't seat. Set the case aside and and advance the shellholder. Advance the empty space on the shellholder all the way around. If you put another case in the space you will double charge the case that you just charged when the new case is resized.

 

The last trick is to make sure you make the full handle stroke on the press.

 

That said, I upgraded last year to a 650 with bullet and case feeders. Much more expensive but much faster.

 

Loaded a few rounds tonight.  115 gr Hornady FMJ-RN over 3.9 gr of VV N320 loaded to COAL of 1.145" (+/- 0.005", apparently my stroke needs some work.)  

 

The neat thing about this load is I don't think I could get a double charge in a 9mm without packing it and also it's from published manufacturer data so I probably will still have a face, but I still looked at each one and weighed a bunch of drops before I started.

 

The full stroke down and up I learned when the shellplate wouldn't advance because my primers weren't, technically speaking, seated.

 

The part about not catching up, I didn't do, because I am kind of a retard and didn't look closely enough at the fact that the powder drop actually contacts the shellplate and therefore prevents powder from spilling every which way if you don't have a case in there.  But now that I have read this post and verified for myself that that was dumb, I will do so in future.

 

Finally, at the end of the process, I weighed the rounds I made... and half of them were 10 grains (no, that is not a typo) more than the other half, which would not be a double charge but closer to a quadruple one.  I might have peed myself a little, especially since I was using all the same headstamp from my once-fired Freedom ammo.  Upon further investigation, it turns out that the weight of the Freedom 9mm cases varies by 10 grains.  Like, literally, half of the empty cases weigh in at 10 grains more than the other half.  Thanks, guys.



#29 Vagetarian

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 08:57 PM

Do you own or have access to a chrono?

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#30 MEISTERB

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 04:52 AM

I am pretty fond of my face and would like to keep it, so I will watch carefully. With that said, the manual operation of the 550 was actually one of the reasons I got it. I like learning about things from the bottom up. Next upgrade will probably be a ROBOT DRIVE 1050.


This is a good idea, but fun fact: If you give them magnets and celebrate when oddball rounds are found, getting your relatives to help you sort 58 lbs of range pickup brass can be a fun Thanksgiving activity! So now I'm committed to the Goat's Ass Brass plan.


Loaded a few rounds tonight. 115 gr Hornady FMJ-RN over 3.9 gr of VV N320 loaded to COAL of 1.145" (+/- 0.005", apparently my stroke needs some work.)

The neat thing about this load is I don't think I could get a double charge in a 9mm without packing it and also it's from published manufacturer data so I probably will still have a face, but I still looked at each one and weighed a bunch of drops before I started.

The full stroke down and up I learned when the shellplate wouldn't advance because my primers weren't, technically speaking, seated.

The part about not catching up, I didn't do, because I am kind of a retard and didn't look closely enough at the fact that the powder drop actually contacts the shellplate and therefore prevents powder from spilling every which way if you don't have a case in there. But now that I have read this post and verified for myself that that was dumb, I will do so in future.

Finally, at the end of the process, I weighed the rounds I made... and half of them were 10 grains (no, that is not a typo) more than the other half, which would not be a double charge but closer to a quadruple one. I might have peed myself a little, especially since I was using all the same headstamp from my once-fired Freedom ammo. Upon further investigation, it turns out that the weight of the Freedom 9mm cases varies by 10 grains. Like, literally, half of the empty cases weigh in at 10 grains more than the other half. Thanks, guys.

Plus you will get variations in the weight of the bullets. You just can't weigh finished rounds. If you question a batch.....tear them apart.

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#31 Will

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 04:55 AM

FIFY


I don't read b anus, and a long time ago when i first started reloading I was one of those guys that double charged a 40 s&w case and it blew up my sti edge.

I've stayed in touch with the gunsmith over the years and he's shown me a shit load of 550 kabooms.

#32 Fishyjoe

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 05:18 AM

So it the fault of the press that you blew up your gat. Got it......

#33 Will

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 05:41 AM

So it the fault of the press that you blew up your gat. Got it......


Pretty well written troll, looks like hooked on phonics doesn't work for everyone.

I'd leave you some cheat codes for luminosity but I don't think you're smart enough to figure out the long in process.

#34 Fishyjoe

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 07:04 AM

Yeah but I can operate a 550. Get back to blaming equipment.

#35 ShootsLikeaDog

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 08:31 AM

Do you own or have access to a chrono?

 

Not yet.  I know that load won't make PF, but I'm also not going to actually use that load for anything other than a proof of concept of keeping my face.  Tentative plan at the moment is to use N320 or WST under coated cast of some flavor, but per paralysis by analysis, can't decide on a weight.  For this experiment I will be happy if it goes pew instead of kaboom and ecstatic if it cycles the slide.

 

That said, acquiring a chrono is the next step, at which point I have to decide between one of the ~$100 models or the ~$500 LabRadar.  Buy once, cry once, right?

 

Plus you will get variations in the weight of the bullets. You just can't weigh finished rounds. If you question a batch.....tear them apart.

 

Yeah, the bullets themselves had a +/- of 0.2 gr.  I wouldn't have been (as) frightened if it had been mixed headstamp, or +/- 1-2 gr difference, but 10 gr made me blink.  Won't do that again!



#36 ToddKS

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 09:33 AM

It just occurred to me that you are using Freedom Munitions brass. Are any of those cases stepped inside? If so you should discard them. They can rupture at the step.
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#37 racetaco

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 09:38 AM

A Budget chrono is completely acceptable, plus they have been known to be somewhat of a bullet magnet. From personal experience they don't survive getting run over by a ATV.
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#38 Will

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 10:31 AM

Yeah but I can operate a 550. Get back to blaming equipment.


I'd know if I have enough crayons to explain this to you but I'll give it a shot:

1. The "design flaw" of the 550 is the lack of an automatic index. It is an additional step the operator must perform that can induce a failure regardless of the skill of the operator - this is a fact not an opinion.

2. When your dumb ass assumed I got my information from b anus forum and so cutely "FIFY", I stated pretty clearly when I was learning to reload I produced the error and the gunsmith stated he sees lots of work coming from 550 owners that double charge cases.

3. The OP is "learning to reload on a 550" so I shared this info with him so he didn't make the same mistake.

#39 MemphisMechanic

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 10:36 AM

I am a huge fan of the prochrono digital. $100ish and it always clocks everything. Every time.

+// .005” is exactly the variation you should expect from a progressive press. Don’t worry about it. That’s all good.

Just load 124/125 coated bullets from whomever makes you happy, and forget about people chasing the magic bullet and powder combination to turn them into a GM.

I’ve run 124s, 130s, 135s, and 147s each for at least a full year of practical shooting. I am back around to 124s. They shoot soft enough to do the job just the same. If you grip the gun hard there’s no difference between a 147 and 124 in your scores
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#40 J.A.Nine

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 10:42 AM

Wondering how much time the OP spent deciding on bullets out or bullets forward. 


Ben told me, "Grip it harder."





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